Archive for October, 2009

Change of pace

Posted in Uncategorized with tags , , , , , , , , on October 23, 2009 by Anton A. Hill

Since the last few posts were entirely devoted to Steven (and yes, there’s more coming), I thought I’d show a bit of this as it totally grabbed me and made me wnat to vomit all over her.

As with my previous post on the Miss America bullshit, my ultimate concern is not that Wendy feels she has a right to affect public policy, abortion rights, education, etc., it’s that she keeps saying over and over that we should teach children and we should act in a way that reflects that we were created.

(She also spews a bunch of other bullshit about the evidence not being there for evolution, Darwin’s theories leading to inhumane actions, consorship fo dissention, the implication that atheistic philosophy doesn’t respect human value, and, let’s face it, that fucking condescneding, holier-than-thou smile is in desperate need of getting smacked off her gob, but I’m attempting to keep this on atheist issues.)

My issue with this is the same as my issues so far with Steven and that crazy lady, Maria. Think what you want. Believe what you want. I don’t care about that. But if you are going to think such a thing and if you’re going to attempt to affect others’ lives with those beliefs, you have got to have evidence.

Much of what Wendy says is logical fallacy. I don’t remember which 1. Essentially she says that since we are all genetic individuals and since we don’t have all gaps filled in the data, the answer must be God.

Enjoy the above video. It’s 1 of about 7.

I thought Steven had given up.

Posted in Uncategorized with tags , , , , , on October 21, 2009 by Anton A. Hill

How wrong I was. Here we go! :

Hey Steve,

>I noticed you have much doubt.

That’s because no one, including you, has provided a shred of evidence.

>It is sad that you would compare the modern, devilish concept of the fictitious “Santa Clause” with all the false, satanic introductions of flying reindeer, North Pole residence, sliding down chinmeys, and blasphemous songs which sing, “…you better not should, you better not pout, you better not cry, I’m telling you why…he sees you when you’re sleeping, he knows when you’re awake, he knows when you’ve been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake…”

As far as I know, the whole Santa Clause deal has nothing to do with Satanism and I have no idea how you could draw such a conclusion. Be that as it may, Satan is just as fictitious as Santa Clause and God. Funny how you find one ridiculously implausible situation (Santa) so difficult to believe and yet you find another completely implausible situation (God) so easy. Why is this? What’s the difference? The only huge one I can think of is that Santa Clause isn’t described in a 1,000 page book. But that makes God no less fictitious.

I also don’t understand why you consider a Christmas carol blasphemous.

>You see how the weak in the faith and shallow in the faith and the various secular ideas that have reduced various practices within the churches and those who may be associated with churches to lies. Santa Clause and the traditions associated with it are nearly all false and filled with lies.

Nearly all false? What part is true? And how are any aspects lies? “Lies” suggests that someone intentionally made something up in order to deceive someone else.

>This is not what Christianity is about. Do not put your trust in what you see with your eyes.

Why not? At least I can have an objective, verifiable account with my eyes. And yes, I am aware of the difficulty in eyewitnesses, so I’m not saying that witnessing with the eyes is always reliable, but it’s much more reliable than unverifiable 2nd hand accounts.

>Do not trust the vain shows which fail at demonstrating the eccentials of the faith.

I don’t know what those are or what you mean.

>Have you read the Scriptures?

Much of them, yes.

>Have you examined these claims from the Word of Scripture?

Yes.

>Or do you merely rely on watered down testimony of fence-riding hypocrites?

In all honesty, every single religious person with whom I’ve spoken has been a hypocrite, including yourself.

>If you want to know more about the faith, examine the Scriptures for yourself. You can search the Scriptures at:

But Steven, that doesn’t work. If reading Scripture were enough to convince me of all your insane claims, I would’ve converted long ago. Taht’s why I’m asking you all these questions, to have you explain to me why I should believe any of this hogwash. And yet you, just like every single other religious person, do nothing more than cite more Scripture. There is no way to objectively, repetitively verify any of Scripture. And until there is, it’s all ridiculous nonsense to me.

I’ll continue with your latest message…

And then:

Hey Steven,

Continuing…

>Here you have the testimony of the law of God and that God also abides by His law in the sense of judgement and justice. You asked the question, “why doesn’t He just forgive?” I assume you think that He should simply snap the finger and abolish the law.

Why not? Human laws are altered or done away with all the time. I don’t see why an all-powerful deity can’t do the same thing.

>Well as you read in Psalms138:2, He has magnified His Word (which is synonymous to His law) above all His name, which is like speaking of His character and all Who He is

Are you saying that God’s made his Word more powerful than even He? I don’t understand.

>Another passage from the New Testament Scriptures speaks in like manner.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

But none of this answers my question of why God doesn’t just forgive sin. Why is all this Law necessary?

>The arrangement with Christ is to save His people from their sins.

Ug. We’re just going around in a circle. If God is all-powerful, why doesn’t he just get rid of sins and forgive people?

By your own word “arrangement” it presumes that God needs to make an arrangement. But He’s God! Why does God need to make an
arrangement?? He can do anything He wants, right? So yeah, just snap your fingers and forgive everyone! Why not?

But why do any of this? Why is it necessary to sacrifice anyone, let alone God’s own son?

>If you are familiar with the Old Testament laws regarding animal sacrifice for the atonement for sins commited, then you may not yet understand that these laws were a foreshadowing demonstrating parabolically the true need for the eternal atonement which Jesus Christ made in the laying down of His own life.

“True need”?? But all that is described in the Old Testament God has power over as he’s all-powerful! So why create all the laws regarding animal sacrifice to begin with? And if God were going to eventually send his Son to take on sin, why create the animal sacrifice laws to begin with? For that matter, why not start with his Son and get the whole dying-for-sins thing over with before it even starts? For that matter, why have sin at all? For that mater, why have judgement at all?

>If you had a chance to read the entire chapter of Romans 3, you may have noticed in verse 19 where is spoken of condemnation, and the means by which God condemns the world (all those who are not in Christ).

Why have condemnation or a means by which God condemns? God’s all-powerful so he could simply choose not to do it this way.

>The law of God shows us our sinfulness and our nakedness in the sight of God.

Our “sinfulness” is only because God allows there to be sin. If there were no sin, there would be no sinfulness. The only reason we’re “naked” in the sight of God is that He’s made the world the way it is.

>The law of God takes two forms. Either in the for of condemnation, or in the form of salvation through the Gospel truth. If a person thinks that by trying to adhere to keeping the commandment and does not have Jesus Christ as their Sacrificial atonement, then the law of God will judge them as sinners (…for all have sinned…) and condemn them.

That’s ridiculous. So even if you’ve followed the Law, God doesn’t care if you haven’t accepted Jesus. What if you follow Jesus, but not the Law?

>But if a person has Jesus Christ as their Sacrificial atonement, then He stands in their place as recipient of this condemnation and being that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God, He being resurrected from the dead after His three day burial, has provided justification for His people.

Resurrection from the dead is a myth. It’s also unclear how this atones for anything. And as I recall, Lazarus and others also rose from the dead. So clearly, in ancient Israel, resurrecting from the dead was a pretty common thing to do. Given that, what makes Jesus’ resurrection so special?

>His people are rendered righteous because of the work of Christ. No longer naked, but are clothed with the righteousness of Jesus Christ and preserved until the day of redemption of our bodies. To review the typifying nature of the passover, the historic miracle of the keeping of the children of Israel from the tenth plague of slaying the firstborn by means of covering all that were in the house with the blood upon the door posts (2sides and upper), show the strength of the sacrifice of the chosen Lamb of God, which is Jesus Christ.

The only part of this I understood was painting the door with blood, which, in turn, I’ve never understood. If God is all-powerful, can’t He see who is or who is not among His people without teh benefit of blood on a door?

Still more:

Steven,

>Well when Judgement day comes,

You have no evidence for this.

>and if you remain an unbeliever, facing the full wrath of God without Christ as you substitute, it will be too late.

You have no evidence for this.

>The end is near.

You have no evidence for this. All I’m asking is for evidence. You can’t provide any. Why do you believe any of this? What if you’re wrong? What if Zeus is coming? What if Odin is coming? Then you will have wasted your time worshipping the wrong god and boy will Zeus be pissed!

And more:

Steven,

>This particular song I mentioned exaults “Santa Claus” to a position of omnipresence, which is only The Lord God possesses.

What’s your evidence for this?

>As far as lies and Santa Claus and the conclussion that the ficticious tales of “Santa Claus” which have crept into the Christian circles, and elsewhere, being of the devil is the case.

You’re saying the Devil made people sing carols and create stories about Santa? Why didn’t God stop the Devil? I thought God was all-powerful.

>This nonsense weakens the faith of some starting at such an early age.

But if God is all-powerful, how could faith in him be weakened?

>Did your parents celebrate Christmas?

To some degree, yes.

>Did they offer gifts to you when you were a child and say they were from “Santa”?

For a few years, yes. Then they told me it wasn’t real. Funny how we are also so ready to let go of one myth, but not another.

Round #4 with Steve!

Posted in Uncategorized with tags , , , , , , on October 14, 2009 by Anton A. Hill

His text and my reply:

Hey Steve,

>You sadly judge God, but are unaware that you stand to be judged.

Let’s slow this down a second. I have no evidence that there is a god, so can’t judge that which doesn’t exist. Replace the word “god” with the expression “Santa Claus” and you’ll see what I mean.

“You sadly judge Santa Claus…”

See how ridiculous that sounds? That’s because there’s no reason to believe that Santa Claus exists either. Now, I do judge this being you and your book describe. And I make no apologies for that. From what I’ve read and heard of the Bible, well, I think Richard Dawkins says it best:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

Why you, Steven, or anyone else would want to follow such a bieng, I’ll never understand. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

>You are obviously aware of sin, but ignore the Creator.

I’m aware of the idea of sin, yes, but I think it’s bullshit. The fact is, just aobut everything a human can do, especially those things which are biological imperatives, are considered sins. That makes no sense. Why would a god create us with biological imperatives that He then punishes?

And ignoring the Creator assumes that there is one. I have yet to hear any compelling reason or evidence to believe so. Once I do, I’ll happily convert.

>It is He Who made you, and it is He Who has to save you.

Those are both assumptions on your part. Where’s your evidence?

>All sin is punishable by eternal damnation.

I’ve never understood this. How is it that all sin, the smallest to the most grievous, is all punishable by the same thing? Does that honestly sound reasonable to you? I mean, what if our society worked that way? You shoplift a candy bar, you get tortured forever. You murder someone, you get tortured forever. Where’s the justice in that?

>This is why Jesus Christ came. He took upon Himself this wrath of God for His people.

Why did God feel wrath for his Creation?

>That is what the death on the cross is about.

I don’t understand.

>All mankind is under the wrath of God because of sin.

I don’t understand this either.

>All mankind has sinned.

How do you know?

>A person has to be brought into the covenant of grace and removed from being under the law to be saved.

I’m sorry, Steve. I don’t understand this either.

>Surely you have some understanding of your own sinfulness don’t you?

You’re assuming that I find validity in the concept. I don’t.

>You may also notice that verse 23 testifies that all have sinned.

How do you know this to be true? Someone just made it up!

>That means me, and that means you. Basically, the whole human race. John Piper (if I remember right) was pointing out verse 26 in that God does justly punish all sin. All sin requires punishnment.

Why is that and how do you know that?

>Here in verse 26, the testimony is that God is just in punishing for sins, but at the same time can account a person righteous who is in Christ.

Why is God just in punishing? Why doesn’t He just forgive?

>This is why Christ came. He came to save His people from their sins. He took upon Himself the punishment for the sins of His people and it is like an exchange. His life for ours. The death on the cross is a cursed death.

Why is any of this necessary. If God is all-powerful, why didn’t He simply not allow sin to exist or simply forgive? Why the arrangement with Christ?

>The law of God testifies of this. This is the amazing love of God, that He would send His blessed Son, Who is Holy and without blemish and undefiled, to lay down His life for filthy sinners and exchange His righteousness on our account.

But why do any of this? Why is it necessary to sacrifice anyone, let alone God’s own son?

>He has satisfied the requirements of the law taking on the wrath of God upon Himself and suffering the punishment we deserve.

But God created the law, so why not just change it or do away with it? I don’t understand why any of this is necessary.

>This is the love of God. What man do you know that would willingly die for another?

I honestly don’t know.

>It is scarce and not common. What man do you know that would die for a rotton criminal guilty of their crime and worthy of death?

That’s a lot of assumption. A criminal is simply someone who broke the law, but there is such a thing as an unjust law. I can think of few criminals whom I believe to be truly worthy of death.

>This is what it is like in God’s sight.

How do you know??

>This is not by the will of man to believe this, it takes a miraculous act from God to impute this righteousness of Christ and giving the gift of salvation through faith.

I’m sorry. You lost me there. What’s the deal with faith?

>Call upon God for mercy.

Why should I when there’s no reason to believe any of this?

>A person who is not in Christ has the wrath of God abiding upon them already, and is subject to eternal damnation.

How do you know?

>Cry out to God for mercy! Ask for forgiveness!

Why should I?!

You’ve sent me a couple videos. Here’s one you might enjoy. If the link doesn’t work, simply google “kissing hank’s ass.”

Take care Steve!

Round #3

Posted in Uncategorized with tags , , , on October 13, 2009 by Anton A. Hill

Steve (he finally identified himself) got back to me much faster than I would’ve expected:

I will have to get back to answering some of these other questions in another response. If you are interested, I can try to get back to answering them soon, so just let me know with a reply.

As for one of the latter comments pertaining to many other religions, the fact is that there is only One God (Who created all things), and He has provided the way in which mankind can be restored into communion with Him. This is why He sent His Son into the world. Surely you are familiar, to some degree, with the testimony God says about His Son, and Him dying on the cross. Did you also know that He was resurrected from the dead? This miraculous event shows the credentials of Jesus Christ and sets the faith apart from other false religions. I will give a few Scrpture references to help explain what I am describing. I gave a broader scope of Scripture verses to help in to include more of the context. This is from the Book of the Acts, testifying about various events of the apostle Paul’s missionary journey. This particular section of Scriptures takes place after Paul left Berea, and went to Athens. Take note of verse 31.

Act 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. Act 17:17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
Act 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoics, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
Act 17:19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is? Act 17:20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
Act 17:21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
Act 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshiped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Act 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter. Act 17:33 So Paul departed from among them.
Act 17:34 Howbeit certain men cleaved unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

Please reply if you would like me to respond to the other questions.

Did you happen to see the other John Piper video that I sent? There is a great explaination about Jesus Christ and His relationship to filthy sinners such as us. If you did not watch it, I encourage you to view it.

In Christ,
Steve><>

My reply:

Hey Steve,

Here’s my reply! :)

>As for one of the latter comments pertaining to many other religions, the fact is that there is only One God (Who created all things), and He has provided the way in which mankind can be restored into communion with Him.

Right off the bat you give me an unsubstantiated assumption. “The fact is there is only One God.” That’s a fact? How do you know? How can it be proved that there is any god, let alone only one?

One of my good friends from college is a Hindu and is just as sure as you are that there are many. How come he’s wrong and you’re right? How do you know “[he] created all things”?

With the “restored in communion”, you’re getting into territory of which I know nothing. I assume you mean we were once in communion with Him, but I don’t even know what it means to be in communion with Him.

>This is why He sent His Son into the world. Surely you are familiar, to some degree, with the testimony God says about His Son, and Him dying on the cross.

Yes, I have familiarity, but I’ve never understood why people like you believe this or why people like me should. Nor do I understand the whole dying-on-the-cross thing.

>Did you also know that He was resurrected from the dead?

I know of the story, but I see no reason to believe that a man–any man–was resurrected from the dead. According to modern medical science, it is impossible to be resurrected from the dead. Without any evidence, I see no reason to believe the story.

>This miraculous event shows the credentials of Jesus Christ and sets the faith apart from other false religions.

But there’s no evidence for said event so it in fact does not separate itself from any other savior-god myth. Heracles ascended unto Mt. Olympus after throwing himself upon a funeral pyre. How is that story any less true than yours?

>I will give a few Scrpture references to help explain what I am describing.

Steve, I’m sorry, but if scripture were enough, i would’ve converted already. Scripture is not evidence. It’s not even reliable testimony. There’s no possible, objective way of verifying it.

>Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Someone was raised from the dead. Again, citing a verse proves nothing.

>Did you happen to see the other John Piper video that I sent? There is a great explaination about Jesus Christ and His relationship to filthy sinners such as us. If you did not watch it, I encourage you to view it.

I watched the video. As near as I could tell, Piper was saying that God views all sins as equal and forgives them all provided that we believe in him and Jesus. But that’s ridiculously unethical. There clearly is a difference between petty crimes like theft and heinous crimes like child molestation. If God can’t see that, He, too, is unethical. Did I miss something in the video?

And the video he alluded to:

Round #2

Posted in Uncategorized with tags , , , on October 13, 2009 by Anton A. Hill

I just got this from the guy (or girl) who has yet to identify himself (or herself):

You asked a question, “…how do you know?”

The Word of God imparts truth and the section of Scriptures that I left have a variety of teachings within. For one thing, we who are of the faith do know because God has given unto us His Spirit to lead and to guide us into all truth.

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit

The ones who are of the faith, and have the Spirit, are taught spiritual wisdom and things that pertain to Jesus Christ, the gospel, judgement, etc.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

To which I responded this:

Hey B (you could tell me your name, you know),

>The Word of God imparts truth and the section of Scriptures that I left have a variety of teachings within. For one thing, we who are of the faith do know because God has given unto us His Spirit to lead and to guide us into all truth.

You know because God gave you His Spirit to lead? How are those two ideas related? First, could you please explain exactly what you mean by “spirit”? I sincerely have never understood what that’s supposed to mean. What does this spirit have to do with leadership? What does this spirit have to do with “all truth”? And what exactly do you mean by “all truth”?

When talking to those fof us who are not of the faith, you really do have to act as if this is all foreign because, to a great extent, it is.

Let me try to paraphrase what I think you’re saying. Essentially, you know that there’s a God and all the rest because God told you it’s true? Do I have that right?

>The ones who are of the faith, and have the Spirit, are taught spiritual wisdom and things that pertain to Jesus Christ, the gospel, judgement, etc.

What’s “spiritual wisdom” as opposed to any other kind of wisdom? What things are you talking about? How do they pertain to Jesus Christ, the gospel, judgement, etc.?

I can apply this same idea to any faith in the world. You claim that you know you’re right because God told you you are (I think). How then are you any different from any other religious person? All religious claim to know God. Most of you must be wrong because many of the religions’ ideas are mutually conflictive.

Maybe you missed my point in my last message, but merely quoting things is not evidence. To an outsider such as myself, it’s
meaningless.

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