From a commenter on that song

…really? u come onto an obviously Christian song and then see fit to throw around insults. i mean what was were u trying to gain, what was ur purpose? i would hope that ur not doing it just for the sake of doing it.

And my reply:

Someone gave me the link as “evidence.” You have a public comments section on a public forum.

I acknowledged the artist’s talent. It’s a shame he’s put it to such silly use. Why not rap about something real (and verifiable) like class struggle or political strife?

Your beliefs are unverifiable and no more valid than belief in leprechauns.

I hope to gain an understanding of specifically what you believe and why. If it is “true” and there is “proof”, that should be easy to provide.

And now:

Of course what I don’t mention is that I also did it because I’m an atheist asshole. But if I were to, that woudn’t be very asshole-ish of me, now would it?

Just keeps going.

Hey there,

>you are the one wasting your life.

I didn’t mean you’re a bad person. I think you can agree that if I were to devote my life to the glorification of the Easter Bunny, that would be a waste of time, right? Well, since I see no more evidence for a god than the Easter Bunny, it seems to me just as much a waste of time.

>maybe when you feel a big enough void inside of you, you will seek God to fill it.

You’re assuming again. I feel no “void.” I hear this argument a lot from the religious. Y’all claim that we’re missing something or we’re suffering or something like that. Maybe some of us are. Maybe even a lot. But that’s part of being human.

Are you free of sadness, disappointment, anger, or guilt? if so, then cool, you’ve surpassed human emotional experience, but there’s no evidence that that has anything to do with a god even if it’s true.

>or maybe if you are stubborn enough you’ll fail to do so.

How is questioning stubborn?? Were people who believed the Earth to be flat merely stubborn? Maybe some, but not when faced with overwhelming evidence that the planet was round. Do I believe in black holes? I think they’re possible from the theories I’ve heard, but since I’ve heard nor seen any concrete evidence, no, I don’t believe in them. Does that make me stubborn in regards to black hole belief?

>you said my life experiences didn’t account for anything. that seems like ur saying i’m a liar.

No, I said they don’t equal evidence. And they don’t. Neither do mine. Think about my Loki thing. If I run up to you and tell you that I’ve felt the presence of Loki, the Scandinavian trickster god, he’s revealed Valhalla to me, and I know this is true because I get sensations when I pray to him even when no one’s around, would you automatically assume that Loki and Valhalla were real?

>if you read the comments as a whole and not just sentence by sentence you’ll understand what I say.

Yes. I have. And still your only evidences are “sensations” and supposed prescience. That’s it.

>but yeah i’m not gonna read everything you’ve written. just to let you know.

That’s certainly your right.

> keep it brief and to the point. there’s just to many points to write about at once. i’m a college student i have homework that takes less time to do.

Okay. Fair enough.

That moron I just posted about

had the following video linked. This perfectly illustrates my issue with how none of this shit can be verified. Nice beat, though.

Nothing but assumption, conjecture, and fallacy. Hey, the Trinity!

This asshole threw down, so I responded in kind.

(I knew this would end eventually. Hee hee.)

Hey, you probably won’t read this, but I’m posting elsewhere, so I’ll go ahead.

>Oh Kay… I did all that I could. You’re not convinced.

All that you could?? Seriously?? The two pieces of information, two, that you gave me were that 1 you saw a hotel in a dream before you saw it in life and 2 you get “sensations” when you pray.

That’s it.

According to you I’m supposed to devote my life to a god for which there is no other evidence than sensations and a supposed prescience. And you dropped the same bs scare tactic of a hell for which there is also not a shred of evidence.

Honestly, if I came to you and said, follow Lokie, the Scandinavian god of tricks because when I pray to him I feel sensations when no one else is in the room and, AND, I saw this hotel in a dream before I saw it in reality, would you automatically assume that there’s also a Valhalla? Would you assume that my experiences mean that Lokie exists? Would you assume that the sagas of Norse mythology were literal, inerrant truth? Or, would you more likely want some evidence of my claims? If you’re to be intellectually honest, you’d want more than what I just hypotthetically offered.

And yet you say you’re done??

This is why I have no patience for the religious. My questions are honest. They may be difficult or irritating, but they’re honest. If I’m to devote my entire life to a belief system, I want to know that it’s the right one. What if you’re wrong and the Mormons are right? What if you’re wrong and the ancient Chinese are right? Then we’re screwed.

I can’t verify your “sensations.” I can’t verify your prescience. No more than I can verify the existence of leprechauns. Therefore, why should I believe your claptrap and not the ancient Irish? There’s an equal amount of evidence for both!

>What the heck? You called me a liar.

I NEVER said you were a liar. Learn to frickin’ read.

>”Life-experiences are not the truth?”

It entirely depends! The founders of the Mormon church swore that they had all touched the golden tablets left by the angel Moroni. Were they all liars? Muslims swear that Mohammed ascended straight into heaven. Are they liars? Just because someone said something happened doesn’t mean it actually happened that way. Even if that person believes it. Belief does not equal evidence. Experience does not equal evidence.

>I like talking to people that listen, but you don’t listen.

Just because I don’t automatically assume your drivel is verifiable evidence and don’t automatically believe your every word doesn’t mean I’m not listening. Because I can name the “evidence” that you proposed proves that I have been listening.

>I’m definitely throwing pearls to a pig right now. I would hate to call you a pig.

Pearls?? You have no evidence at all beyond the supposed sensations and a hotel! And after I asked you numerous times why you don’t believe other people’s myths, you’ve had no answers! Know why? Because you have no reason! Because your made-up bs is no more valid than anyone else’s. The cold hard fact of the matter is you know that, but rather than admit it, you’ve reduced yourself to ad hominem attacks and quitting. The same as everyone else.

> I just wanna tell you I am not gonna comment ever again. You got questions ask somebody else. Alright?

You’re all the same. I ask my honest questions and when I don’t automatically believe you, you get pissy, childish, and run away. If your “truth” is so strong, why can’t it hold up to my measly questions? If it all makes so much sense, why is it so hard for you to communicate? If this god is so powerful, why can’t he just tell us what he wants without the need for so much interpretation?

>God is not a spaghetti monster.

You’re right. I can prove the existence of spaghetti.

>That is ridiculous, wow.

The likelihood of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is just as much as a god. The Flying Spaghetti Monster even has a gospel. If you don’t believe me, just look it up on amazon.

>Learn to make an arguement without offending or just denying all claims.

Your offense is your problem. The only claims I deny are the ones without evidence.

>It isn’t even a conversation where we respect opinions.

Your opinion’s based on 4,000 year old Middle-Eastern nomadic tribal superstition! Of course I don’t respect it! I respect your right to adhere to it, but don’t understand it.

>I am going to “cop-out” and keep on living for God.

Your life to waste, man. Not mine.

>I hate these dragged out conversations. I’m gonna keep my belief. I answered your question and that’s why I believe in God. No making this up.

Still not a shred of evidence and not one explanation as to why any other faith is wrong.

Fact is you believe it because you want to. But I’m not ever going to waste my life on something that has no evidence at all for it’s ridiculous, insane claims or promises that it can’t possibly prove. If living a lie is good enough for you, more power to you, just do us all a favor and don’t vote.

–

As an afternote, what a fucking stupid tool!

Ug. Fucking circular logic.

Yay for my format!

>I am telling you my life experiences. These are facts. You must not understand.

A life experience doesn’t equal a fact.

>I tell you life experiences that I had. That’s the evidence I use.

Having seemingly prophetic dreams and feelings when you pray doesn’t equal those being caused by a god. And even if it did, it doesn’t equal the Christian god. It’s just as likely that any other god provided those experiences.

Evidence is something that can be independently and repeatedly verified by an objective party. Having feelings while you pray cannot be objectively verified. It’s more likely that you’re experiencing sensations through your pleasure center (which can be objectively verified) than through a supernatural being.

>You should believe it because the same thing you choose not to believe could end up dragging you down to hell. You would be sorry you never listened.

Again, the existence of a hell and what drags people there is an assumption. Why are you right about a hell and the Jews are wrong? Or the ancient Greeks? You have no evidence for your belief in hell.

>God is not equivalent to the Easter Bunny.

They’re both made up, have magical powers, and cannot be disproved. Try it. Prove that the Easter Bunny doesn’t exist. It’s impossible.

>The thing about the whole appearing thing is that he is so powerful that if we were to see him we would die because his glory would make us mad to death.

First, how do you know that? Second, if he’s all-powerful, supposedly he can appear in a form that would not drive us mad.

>There is a thing called faith for a reason. Faith is not faith if you seen him already. Faith is knowing without seeing.

How do you know without seeing? Again, if faith is all you’re going to base your beliefs on then why not believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster? There’s just as much evidence to the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster as a god.

Furthermore, I don’t understand why faith is a good thing. What we know is based on verifiable evidence. Once we realize a theory is wrong, we let go of that theory. What’s the value of believing something without evidence? Like I said before, why not believe anything about anything? Why don’t you believe in Santa Claus? Why don’t you believe in LImbo? Why don’t you believe in Valhalla? How about Atlantis? Each of these has just as much evidence to support it as everything you insist is real.

>He is powerful

How do you know?

>that is why you should worry that your assumptions that God doesn’t exist jump the gun. His powerful punishment will be too much for you.

How do you know?

-Good realisation. It supports why you desperately need to seek God. God is believable to me because it is a fact he exists.

You don’t know that.

> “I felt him touch me.” There was nobody else in the room.

What, did he breathe on you? Did you play Scrabble with him? Did he give you a backrub? “I felt him touch me” can mean many things.

>These sensations are happening while nobody is there.

What is the sensation?

>You are trying to question everything you can when you know what I’m talking about.

Of course I am. You’re telling me I’ll go to hell if I don’t get it right.

>-I don’t know the context here. You mean people should not wear clothes of different fibers? Or do you mean that people shouldn’t beat their slaves so hard that the slaves die in the same day?

>These are both trends. You understand now?

Sorry, no. I’ve read bits of the Bible that give very specific instructions on things like diet and slavery. Do you follow those things? If not, why not?

>The afterlife. Honestly I shouldn’t have to say that.

If you mean “afterlife,” then say “afterlife.”

>All people that I know that do drugs are unhappy about it after a years of doing it. I did drugs before, these are people that I know about.

Fair enough, but you said it right there. “These are the people I know about.” Therefore your assumption is based only on your own experience. That’s not quantifiable.

>Again I do experience this. It’ll be just a little 3-5 secs that I saw in my dreams. One time I was looking at a Hotel in Savannah, GA that I’ve never seen before in my dreams and in a weeks time I saw this same location. I didn’t even know the location. I’ve never been to Savannah, GA until then. It mostly isn’t really important occurences but it is there. It proves fate. It proves that we must go through certain things that are predetermined. It is not a matter of probability that events happen.

If what you say is true, and assuming it can be verified, then I agree it’s an extraordinary experience. Whether it proves fate I don’t know. And if it does, that also proves that free will doesn’t exist for if you’re predetermined, you have no choice. Beyond that, though, your extraordinary experience doesn’t equal god’s existence. And even if it did, it doesn’t equal the Christian god’s existence.

>I say this because I’m telling you a fact not an opinion.

If you mean your sensations and dreams, that can’t be verified and so ins’t proof.

>-(Read the bible.)
>I have.
>You’ve read the whole bible?

Not cover to cover, but I’ve read everything I’ve been told to read and more. Have you read the entire thing cover to cover?

>Have you prayed to God that you would recieve full understanding when you read what you read as well.

I did as a kid. I received no contact. But that’s beside the point. If god is all-powerful, why doesn’t he just make what I need to understand easy to understand without the requirement of prayer? More to the point, why didn’t he guide the composition of the entire text in such a way that full understanding would be a given, without the benefit of prayer?

>You won’t understand it without that.

How do you know?

>Have you just read a couple pages and called it the entire bible?

I’ve read more than a couple. But let’s pretend I’ve read the whole thing, what amazing wisdom have you understood through your prayer and reading the Bible cover to cover that I haven’t?

>-It tells you things you won’t get.
>Such as?

>You’d know it if you really read it.

That’s a cop-out. You can either tell me or you can’t. And the fact is you can claim this infinitely. If I read it and come to
understanding X, all you have to say is I didn’t read it correctly. If I try again, you can make the same claim. Over and over.

>You are pushing to oppose God. You do not want to acknowledge he is real.

That’s because I have no reason to!

> This is why I believe what I believe.

You didn’t answer my questions. Why don’t you believe in Vishnu or Thor or the Flying Spaghetti Monster?