Alcoholics Anonymous is bullshit
In fact, it’s a cult. And I apply the same criticism of all the Ala-Non family groups. I know this after almost a decade of direct experience and much more time of indirect experience. But don’t take my word for it…
1. No one is powerless over a substance. People quit substance abuse all the time.
2. This is at least vague and at most a baseless assertion.
3. Turning one’s will and life over to an unverifiable entity is ridiculous. The phrase “as we understood Him” is only there to cop out of the obvious religious implication.
5. One can’t admit anything to an unverifiable entity. One admitting one’s wrongs to another person is ultimately unnecessary.
6. There’s no point in devoting an entire step to the notion of being ready. Especially to an unverifiable entity.
7. One can’t humbly ask an unverifiable entity to remove anything from one.
8. / 9. These really should be the same step.
11. This is so fucking ridiculous that I’m not sure where to start. I’ll go with “conscious contact with God.” I don’t even know what the fuck that’s supposed to mean. I’m sure they don’t mean a literal DSL line connection with an unverifiable entity. But then, what do they mean? Do they mean that through prayer and meditation one hears voices in one’s head that tells one not to drink? They say improve conscious contact. Does this mean that said conscious contact is faulty in the beginning, but then prayer and meditation improve it? Is this contact supposed to be maintained throughout the conscious, waking hours? What the fuck are the specific mechanics of prayer and meditation? How the fuck did the authors know any of this would work? Praying only for the “knowledge of His will and the power to carry that out.” How is this any different from a missionary or a jihadist?? Tons of insane people believe firmly that they know, not think, but know what God wants.
12. What the fuck is a spiritual fucking awakening??!! I’ll tell you! It’s fucking meaningless!! Carry this message to alcoholics?? It’s a fucking mission!
I won’t get into the 12 traditions except to say that 1 of them is about giving the program money. This leads directly to my 1st point.
It’s a cult.
Let’s do the run down of cult features.
1. AA has charismatic leader/savior figures in Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob.
2. AA uses its own jargon. “I’m friends with Bill.”
3. AA claims that you are worse without it.
4. AA’s structure is a system in perpetuum. You can never be “cured.” It is a system that you not only can, but are encouraged to take part in for the rest of your life.
5. AA encourages looking down on outsiders. This is not in any of the literature, but it is an unspoken pressure.
6. AA actively solicits funds from its members solely to keep the organization going.
7. AA has a “spiritual” component which cannot be defined nor proven, but which is a central doctrine and considered effectively infallible.
There are some ethical concepts in AA such as taking responsibility for your actions. The thing is, though, like with any religion, any benefit that can be derived from AA can be found in other facets of society without AA. Basically, it is unnecessary.
My 2 big problems with this cult then are 1 that it is afforded unmerited respect and 2 it takes part in active church/state separation violations in that it is often the go-to choice for courts to send DUI perpetrators and related drunk offenders as a means of dealing with their problem.
March 15, 2010 at 5:25 am
http://lydiacharlotte.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/is-aa-a-cult/
August 1, 2010 at 8:58 am
I am a recovering member of A.A. and I applaud you!!! Your observations of this ridiculous cult are 100% accurate. Thank you. I enjoyed reading your page.
December 4, 2010 at 3:25 am
I have started a bog on what happens if you are arrested and go to DUI School you may be interested in:
duischooltruth.wordpress.com
April 26, 2011 at 6:31 pm
[...] only real point is just because an organization has a positive reputation (like certain 12-step organizations I’ve mentioned) and does some quantitative good doesn’t mean we should [...]
May 25, 2011 at 9:35 pm
I attended AA meetings for six months after I quit drinking. I left because there wasn’t a single meeting that at some point didn’t deteriorate into up front bible thumping.
I was also not very keen on the idea of willingly calling myself a “victim” of my addiction. I chose to put myself in that crappy place, I can bloody well choose to work towards something better. And I have.
The whole idea of “powerlessness” in AA is just an attempt to weaken one’s resolve against religious indoctrination. You take people who are obviously hurting, tell them that this “god” guy can totally help them, and that they are otherwise worthless and unable to live a normal life, and most people fall for it.
May 26, 2011 at 5:59 pm
Hey Anti,
Thanks for dropping by! It’s funny that you mention the Bible-thumping as that was never my experience. I hear a lot of God-talk, but never specifically the Christian God. This kind of surprises me too, as Hillsboro OR isn’t exactly Sweden in terms of its secularism.
May 26, 2011 at 7:26 pm
AA helps some people so in that respect it has some merit. I also agree that it is very damaging to other people convincing them they cannot help themselves without AA.
This is totally wrong. Much of AA “statements of fact” are totally unproven and false. But you must understand AA was originally used for people who were worst of the worst alcoholics, really near death. It was necessary to lie to
them to save their lives. Now days it is used for every possible ailment. The courts should be held accountable for the people who have been emotionally damaged by AA, and now have lost the confidence in themselves that they can quit on their own. God damm AA.
May 26, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Hey Al,
Thanks for dropping by! With respect, I disagree with your assertion that “AA helps some people…” I would argue that some people help some people, but they attribute their help to AA. In my opinion, this is no different from claiming that believing in SAnta Claus has helped some children. I also question whether it is ever necessary to lie to people to save their lives and if it is morally obligatory to save the lives of people who choose to damage their lives. But that’s another discussion.
May 26, 2011 at 7:28 pm
F*** aa
May 26, 2011 at 7:38 pm
Indeed, B.
June 7, 2011 at 9:53 pm
Well said! The sooner the world realises this and starts promoting superior alternatives, the better.
June 7, 2011 at 10:16 pm
The only real alternative, other than self-reliance, that I’ve heard of is the SOS… Secular something O Sobriety. I think I have them linked.
September 18, 2012 at 12:35 pm
There is also SMARTRecovery here are two links, one US based but members from lots of other countries, the other UK based http://www.smartrecovery.org/ http://www.smartrecovery.org.uk/ SMART, the rational choice.
September 18, 2012 at 5:38 pm
Hey EZ,
Thanks for the links. I’d never heard of that. The closest thing I’d heard of out here was Secular Recovery (or whatever the hell it was called), which has few branches and little public support.
Best,
Anton.
June 13, 2011 at 6:56 pm
[...] my immersion in the 12 Step programs, I had this one shoved down my throat. So nice to see it realistically [...]
October 25, 2011 at 5:22 am
AA is ridiculous. All twelve steps are ridiculous. fake it till you make it? 1′s too many a thousands never enough? slogans like this are the devil to unaware, gullible human beings. its gotten so bad that one cannot give someone other options without someone jumping down their throat telling them that they are in dire need of an attitude adjustment. i quit drinking april 1st 2010 and live with two roommates who drink everyday. . i promise you that AA is bullshit and i feel incredibly sorry for any poor sap who falls into its trap. What is sad is that you are all but forced to participate in this program if you have any alcohol charges against you. and if you don’t have a problem?? you guessed it… you’re in denial!
October 25, 2011 at 5:46 pm
Yeah, the court-ordered DUI issues have always gotten my goat not only because it isn’t necessarily effective, but it’s a violation of church and state separation. And don’t get me wrong. DUI offenders should be held accountable, but it just seems like a couple days to dry up coupled with a license suspension might be a better way to go.
November 14, 2011 at 4:42 am
It is near total complete bullshit. Someone enters the program as a lifelong alcoholic and before they decide on leaving the program, they’ve met a guy in a meeting and became a crack whore; that’s ok, though. Every body has got to find their bottom and sometimes it is lower than they had realized because every time they leave the program… they sink lower and lower… unto death, even… That’s what the program is for, so work your program…
November 14, 2011 at 5:12 am
Hey Harry,
Thanks for dropping by. I’m not sure I get where you’re coming from because you seem to both be saying that AA is ineffective and effective. I have yet to hear evidence that the program is any more effective than any other method, but if you have any data to support such a notion, please feel free to drop it by here.
December 14, 2011 at 2:09 am
AA is sexist! AA promotes a male god. AA claims to be non-denominational but it is based on Christianity. AA is patriarchal and and based on hierarchy. AA is secretive. While not fully a cult , AA is very CULTISH. AA does not encourage service outside of AA. AA is full of fear mongering – “if you don’t go to meetings you will drink or die!” My 28 years of sobriety are not dependent on AA meetings. My recovery is due to my own inner resources. Ardent AAers resent people who become successful in life. The AA Big Book was written by men only. The language is antiquated. The approach is out-dated. The small section on women is DISGUSTING!!!!! AA is full of 13 stepping. Men take advantage of women in program
who are new and emotionally vulnerable. It is time for up-dated alternatives. 10% of addicts recover across the board whether in AA or not!!!! AA fosters dependency on AA. AA is shaming and restrictive.
December 14, 2011 at 8:05 pm
Hey Helen,
Thanks for dropping by. Wow. Some crazy shit that. Even with my reservations about AA, I haven’t experienced have the stuff you mention. In my time with Ala-Teen and Ala-Non, there was definitely a ripping ton of “higher power” bullshit, but never blatant Christianity, and I’m sure most members were Christians.
December 17, 2011 at 3:15 am
check out the history of AA. It was based on Christianity and still smacks of it. i would like to continue communicating but you need to be more specific. what part of my dialogue do you see as ‘crazy shit?’ what parts have you not witnessed? i attended AA several times a week for 28 yrs in different parts of the world and saw the same stuff everywhere. how long did you attend?
December 19, 2011 at 7:03 am
Hey Helen,
I’m admittedly ignorant of the history of AA other than its founders. As for the “crazy shit”, I’ve not specifically witnessed the “If you don’t go…you’ll die.” I’ve not witnessed any resentment from those in AA of those who recover outside of AA. I’ve not read the Big Book. I know nothing of its small section on women. I’m not surprised by men taking advantage of women, but I’ve not noticed that either.
I attended Ala-Teen for about 7 years and also attended Ala-Non off and on.
January 8, 2012 at 4:53 pm
http://www.orange-papers.org/
January 9, 2012 at 2:26 am
Hey Satan,
Thanks for the link. Was that it?
Best,
Anton.
March 22, 2012 at 12:05 am
I was in AA from the time i was 17 until I was 26. I volunteered to go to treatment after realizing I had a very serious drug problem.(crank, coke weed, alcohol). I say serious as in I did drugs everyday but this was for about a year and a half.
I no longer attend AA. I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand the people in AA taught me responsibility, being a member of society, and giving back to the world. I guess in a sense they taught me to grow up. It also taught me that without AA I was destined to become a druggy again, and if I wasn’t “spiritual fit” I was headed down the path of addiction.
I’m 40 now. I don’t attend AA anymore. I don’t have a drug addiction problem or a drinking problem. I have life problems. But I don’t use drugs or alcohol to cope.
I do know addiction is an isolating behavioral problem. Its just a way to cope with life with altering your mind. You just become – in no other way to better describe it “Full of shit”. You believe your own lies about the world and the people in it. You push away the ones that truly love you and surround yourself with other drug addicts.
AA gives you new friends.. it may be brain washing but what is better.. hearing “fake it till you make it” and “turn your will over to god” or “I’m a worthless piece of shit” “just do this drug and everything will be better, fuck what your family thinks.” ?
I saw alot of people join AA, get their life turned around and quit attending, and they mostly led happy lives after. Some people need AA, Their minds are just geared toward self destruction / self deception and they need others in the group to point this out.
In the end I think its what YOU need. Not what others tell you. I became unhappy in AA. I couldn’t believe alot of what I was hearing and knew for me that I needed to experience other things in life, but again this is just ME. I did join when I was very young.
Hope this helps.
March 23, 2012 at 5:48 pm
Hey Joe,
Thanks for dropping by and for sharing (heh). Yeah, I’ve never denied that people get positive things out of AA. What I’ve denied is that any of that positivity is necessarily through or unique to AA. A long time ago, some woman told me she learned responsibility through AA, but I doubt that as, unless she’s a complete sociopath, she’d already picked that one up.
You’re absolutely right that AA gives you friends. Kind of like church. People aren’t allowed to (openly) dislike you. I have several family members and friends of the family who seem to use 12-step programs as their social outlet, which, frankly, I find inappropriate considering its alleged purpose. Last thing someone in need needs is to show up o a meeting for the first time only to realize it’s a huge clique.
I understand your question on which is better. The problem I’ve always seen is that the choice you suggest is a false one. It’s not either “let go and let god” or “your’e a piece of shit.” It can also be “figure it out for yourself with a little help from your friends.” To suggest otherwise is horseshit.
I get that some people seem to “need” AA. But I don’t buy it. People have existed for a very long time. So has alcohol. There’s evidence of wine-making in Anatolia dating back something like 8,000 years. I’m pretty sure that they didn’t need to chat about their problems with alcohol. Granted, I’m sure life was very different then, but the point is that the premise that AA is somehow necessary has yet to be demonstrated.
Best,
Anton.
April 12, 2012 at 9:39 pm
AA is the most useless outreach organizations out there along side with other anonymous groups. It basically tells one that they are not to blame when in reality, they are the ones that were susceptible to their behavior and choice of actions.
this is also a placebo and I feel terrible for those that really need help because they are under real problems such as depression as they aren’t getting the correct diagnosis and treatment.
April 18, 2012 at 5:46 pm
Hey Paul,
I’ve found it more than a little ironic that AA preaches both personal responsibility and choice, but also preaches one’s lack of control over alcohol. Baffling.
Yes, misdiagnosis and mistreatment are both problems, though clearly not exclusive to AA. But this speaks to a larger issue. Since AA is so culturally praised, it’s almost unheard of to even question its efficacy. The assumption tends to be that if it didn’t work for you, it’s your fault, not because it simple didn’t work.
Best,
Anton.
April 19, 2012 at 5:09 am
Hey guys,
It is literally a situation… to each his own. If you need aa you will see it as a solution and it will work for you. That is the only way that anybody can put it. I have just recently gone to a few meetings and I have noticed huge changes in my outlook on life and also my drinking habits. For me I am a believer in the higher power and have been able to use this to my advantage. I was lucky and this situation has worked for me. AA is definitely not for everybody and there are definitely different ways that work for different people. This program will only work for you if you let it work for you.
April 19, 2012 at 5:13 pm
Hey Joel,
What you describe in your second sentence is confirmation bias. The same can be said for any placebo, such as rabbits feet. Yet, we don’t hear rabbits feet being universally praised in the culture, do we? I’m sure the effects you describe are real. I’ve never said that group sharing is bad. But I wonder why you believe in a higher power. What evidence is there that such an alleged entity has helped you stopped drinking rather than your own choices and self-restraint?
My two main problems with AA have always been its unmerited universal cultural praise and its oft government-endorsed compulsory attendance for DUIs and the like. The former is irritating, but the latter is a constitutional violation.
Best,
Anton.
May 29, 2012 at 5:37 pm
I dont even know where to begin when approaching the subject of AA. It is probably not sufficient to say I do not like it. I have had a lot of encounters with it, 95% of which were court-forced.
It should be obvious to the most simple person that it is indeed a cult and that, even though they deny the fact, it IS a religious program. I am not an atheist, but I believe that on’e spiritual status, relationaship with god, whatever you may call it, is a very personal thing.
Bringing up the unconstitutionality of the courts forcing alcohol/drug offenders to attend AA is just the tip of the iceberg. It must be awkward and uncomfortable enough for someone to go to an AA meeting for the first time already, but when it is thrust upon an individual? When that individual walks into a meeting and has to give the facilitator of the meeting a paper to be signed for the court? That is just plain wrong.
In my personal experience, AA people do not like to see AA shunners do well because it negates thier undying belief that the cult they have allowed to take hold of thier souls is irrellevant and unnecessary. The worst slogan I have ever heard, and I have heard them all – they are all terrible, is this: “You are not responsible for what you did in your addiction/alcoholism. You are responsible for what you do in your recovery.” If that is not the worst of cop-outs and irresponsible denial of reality, completely seperating some AA hack from the negative impact of thier actions… holy christ man, I just can’t imagine what would be.
AA is nothing more than a social club and a cult. If you have never been there, they would like you to join them. If you hve been there, and have made it obvious that you are aware of what it really is, you are thier socail pariah. If you have quit drinking/drigging without the “help” of AA, they really can’t stand it and are waiting, hoping you will fall down in order to verify that they are not wasting theier lives in this pointless and mind-sucking cult.
May 29, 2012 at 6:46 pm
Hey Drew,
95% court-forced, huh? A tiny issue with responsible driving have we? Why aren’t you an atheist? What do you believe and why? I agree with most of the rest you say except for the stuff that can’t be verified. While I’ve observed social disapproval of those who’ve helped themselves without the help of the program, I can’t go so far as to declare that members of AA want people to fail so that they need AA.
Best,
Anton.
May 31, 2012 at 3:13 pm
there is NO reliable hand of AA.It’s turned into a bunch of worn out drunks and a front for druggies,to hide out and who can’t handle the rigors of real rehab.A total crock of crap.
May 31, 2012 at 5:06 pm
Hey Ron,
Didn’t know AA was a front for druggies. It’s fascinating to me the levee of reaction my post has garnered. Some are vehemently against AA, some are kind of for it. No one so far has vehemently defended it.
Best,
Anton.
May 31, 2012 at 8:20 pm
For more estute expose,go to Orange Report and comedic synopsis by Penn and Teller. Always remeber,founder Bill Wilson(who is to be revered by the old groupies,used the funding to payoff a knocked up secretary. Scam begets future scams,all iun the supposed name of recovery.
June 1, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Hey Ron,
I forgot Penn and Teller covered AA. I’ll have to watch that again. I know too well the reverence held for Bill W. That’s one of the reasons I’ve called it a cult. That much worship for anything is weird. I had no idea about the secretary bit. I’d love to see/hear the evidence for that.
Best,
Anton.
June 27, 2012 at 1:16 pm
I wish I could justifiably assert that the substance of what has thus far been said were untrue.
I wish I could state that AA does not co-opt some of the tactics commonly utilised by cults.
I wish I could know that AA is an overwhelmingly positive movement. (Remembering that an unknown number of those who do leave, are FURTHER damaged by their AA experience.)
I wish I could say that AA promotes the integrity of thoughts, emotions, and actions of the individual, and of the group.
Sadly, I cannot.
I am sadden that AA continues to miss the opportunity to be more open-minded and flexible, in order to assist in the lives of people in real need of help.
I cannot be an apologist for lies, delusions, obfuscations, cognitive dissonance, or veiled threats, ESPECIALLY in terms of individuals at a low point in their lives, psychologically.
AA’s greatest weakness perhaps, is that it cannot evolve, or admit to any inherent, erroneous aspects. As such, it dogmatically asserts a regard for itself, as some kind of absolute, which is unnerving and disquieting for an individual with any integrity.
Also, I do find it particularly insulting, that AA’s seek out rationally-based opportunities for discussion such as this page, in order to indulge their own narcissistic desire to patronise those for whom AA has not been of benefit, in order to boost themselves.
And lastly, I do commend you for maintaining a quality of discourse, which can so often be sabotaged or otherwise degraded by toxic individuals.
Best,
James.
June 27, 2012 at 4:07 pm
Hey James,
Well put! Couldn’t have said it better myself. I don’t know about people boosting themselves. Seems you could apply that criticism so far and wide as to render it meaningless.
Best,
Anton.
June 27, 2012 at 5:18 pm
Right on the mark.This outfit should be taken out,tarred and feathered for their actions.Most do NOT recover,several actually commit suicide while maintaining membership.It’s become nothing more than a front for DRUG addicts to cowardly to attend NA,politicians who get in trouble and 13th steppin morons to hide behind. Hopefully several state AG’s offices will run undercover invests on these clowns and BS artists.
June 27, 2012 at 6:09 pm
hey Ron,
I don’t know what I’d go so far as tar and feathering, but i see we’re on the same page.
Best,
Anton.
July 23, 2012 at 10:19 am
It’s an ersatz social social group for people who otherwise don’t have anything to do in the early evening. Most people are decent enough (at least superficially) but suffer from depression or anxiety disorders that they tried to treat with booze. Now many suffer from depression of anxiety disorders that they try to treat with caffeine, nicotine and day old donuts.
Weird.
July 23, 2012 at 6:15 pm
I’ve definitely witnessed people who had nothing better to do on a Saturday night and the anonymous group of choice was their (only) social outlet. That’s kind of sad, but not wholly unethical, except if a newcomer tries the group and sees that there’s a firmly established clique, they may wander away.
Your other observation of the co-existing chemicals I definitely also noticed. i found it more than a little ironic that alcoholics would drop the booze only to suck down cigarettes and coffee during breaks. One addiction for another. Then again, I don’t remember any car crash fatalities involving doughnuts.
July 24, 2012 at 1:25 pm
Hey, I loved your post. It hit home in a lot of ways. I grew up in Alanon, I did the cultish vibe from it at times. But I found it very different from A.A.. I never had a problem with drinking. But a lot of my family does. I have gone to quite a few open A.A. meetings, annd everytime I went, I felt looked down upon, Like I wasn’t a member of their group, and got the vibe every time that I wasn’t welcome. From what I’ve experienced and seen friends and family go through is, it’s their way or no way, and if you don’t do what the program/steps require, then you are not living the correct way and are doomed. They claim there is no religion, But it constantly goes from higher power to God and spirituality to religion. It’s all very dehumanizing and degrading. And don’t get me started on the whole sponsor thing. But I do believe Alanon people are a little more accepting from my experience and I didn’t feel the pressure from others like I did A.A. but I still feel the whole cult vibe it has.
July 25, 2012 at 10:43 am
“They claim there is no religion, But it constantly goes from higher power to God and spirituality to religion.”
I started attending AA again about 6 months back and have made it clear at meetings that I’m agnostic. The reception has been mixed. Some people are nice and make small talk, others roundly ignore me. Some have advised me to read the chapter “We Agnostics” in the AA Big Book. This reading is meant to convince the reader of the existence of god. I find it to be a poorly written insult to thinking people that uses goofy and antiquated 1930′s jargon. My 2 cents for what it’s worth.
July 25, 2012 at 5:45 pm
Thanks! I’m glad you’ve found some use in AA. I’d love to know more about the “We Agnostics” bit if you care to expound.
July 27, 2012 at 4:21 pm
Thanks! Yeah, the “correct” way. My experience was basically positive, but the odd, cultish things I started to notice in my late teens (when I coincidentally started losing my faith). I had no experience with sponsors as I never tried to get one.
August 6, 2012 at 11:48 am
Back again.Well took the cult to task via the Catholic and UCC Churches here in VT.The drug addicts(who actually control the agenda)and drunks were “mother f’n”God to the hilt at meetings held in a Church basement.They also had a clown,who claims to be a perpetual killer clippin good from the churches food bank.Well the so called pastors,who are tied into local politicians,both opted to look the other way.Fraud religions,fraud recovery and just a hangout for druggies.Next stop law enforcement..
August 6, 2012 at 6:05 pm
Hi Ron,
What went down?? What’s this about a clown?
August 27, 2012 at 4:51 pm
I wrote long well researched letters to Bill Maher about 12 step
programs and Drew Pinsky socoipathic scumbag who’s having
a profound impact on our society (Maher had Pinsky on his show
for some “expert commentary” in the wake of Whitney Houston’s
death.) FYI Pinsky isn’t a trained psychiatrist. 12 step programs
are dangerous to our society and our health care system. I think
this issue is far more important than the general public realizes.
The culture created that discredits and demonizes those who get
drunk or high is judgemental and fascist. This climate has social,
professional and familial reprecussions for many people. Society
tolerates things much worse than drug and alcohol use. Research
the history of this scamming of the health care industry and the
society. Bill Wilson was a despicable con man who continued
to behave very badly long after he stopped drinking. The program’s
grandiosity and inherently contradictory manipulative doctrine
are indicative of Wilson’s highly pathological psychology. Most
normal people(even many health care providers) recognize 12
step programs are bullshit once given any exposure to it and
walk away with a chuckle. So why does this fraud with ZERO
basis in science or psychology continue to hold a legitimate
and almost exclusive status in the health care industry and the
courts?If people want to sit in a church basement hey,it’s a
free country but when it comes to health care(and health care dollars) and the courts this shit needs to be outlawed ! I’m very serious.
August 27, 2012 at 5:31 pm
Hi Deborah,
I wouldn’t go as far as all that, though I trust that you’ve done your research. In my opinion, our society tolerates 12-step programs for exactly the same reason it tolerates The Secret: it’s popular.
Best,
Anton.
August 27, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Hi Anton,
The thing is it’s really not popular. Most people exposed to
it step away pretty quickly(many find it to be a psychologically
damaging experience) and those in the general public who
haven’t make totally false assumptions based on the
propaganda 12 step programs have innundated throughout
the society.The program is rooted in lies,propaganda,bullying
and secrecy.Health care professionals are bullied and face
negative career consequences if they speak out against 12
step programs.The Secret is a stupid book that people are
free to read or not read,if it were being taught as scientific
fact in public schools that would be a problem.12 step programs
are much worse than that scenario. People may have jobs,
custody rights,licenses or their freedom on the line if they
don’t attend AA. What Dr. or course of treatment would
claim to be the”only way”? This needs to be out of our health
care system and our courts(employers do actually have a right
to make keeping a job contingent upon AA attendance but
they probably wouldn’t if they knew the program is a totally
fraudulant scam.) As I said it’s a free country but health care
and our public institutions are subject to some accountability.
Any Dr. conducting a course of treatment so unconnected to
science and a good faith effort to produce successful results
would be sued for malpractice and/or lose their license.
Take care,
Deborah
August 27, 2012 at 10:35 pm
No comments on the extensive ,informed, and(in my estimation)
insightful opinions I’ve expressed?Maybe some highly subjective
anecdotal bullshit would have been more graspable in this sound
bite based self absorbed culture we live in. This is what enables
Republicans to get people to vote against their own economic
interests.This is a very serious and far reaching issue.If you’ve attended AA and figured out it’s nonsense(and very damaging
to many people) which most people do in time,the anwser is
not to shrug your shoulders and say well that’s over and done.
Just because you’re ok doesn’t mean it’sok.It’s profoundly
fucked up and unacceptable medically,legally,socially and
morally.Remember Drouche Pinsky a huge salesman for this
scam probably has more influence over public perceptions
about mental health and substance abuse than any other
person.This is our health care system,our justice system and
our society.This is about your jobs and your families.All it
takes is one DUI to find yourself engaged with this cult.
Have a nice night,
Deborah
August 28, 2012 at 8:16 am
Why is my comment still awaiting moderation?Is it the anti Republican comments or the misspelled commonplace word.
I ask you this, if Churchill had been discredited and ignored for
being a “drunk” when he said very early on that Hitler (who did
not drink) was very dangerous and needed to be stopped what would happen in a Pinsky cultural climate where he could easily
dismissed as an alcoholic? I think this is a very important
issue that has deeply sociological, cultural and political
effects. Take care and please take this seriously. Deborah
August 28, 2012 at 4:20 pm
Calm down, Deborah. This isn’t all I do and I like to read comments before I approve them even though I approve all comments. I don’t care if you’re anti-Republican. I wouldn’t care if you were anti-Democrat.
August 28, 2012 at 4:23 pm
I guess what I mean is that in popular culture, AA seems to have this odd, hallowed place. I agree with you on many people’s reactions once they’re long-term exposed to it, but the program does seem to prevail. The only part I disagree with is the claim of AA’s “bullying.” I’m not aware of any evidence of that. Are you? If so, please share.
August 28, 2012 at 1:18 pm
The scam gets into the court system.The use AA/NA/Al ANON when medical plans aren’t available or county services are overloaded.The new Bill Wilsons and Wilsonettes control the donation basket,then vulture upon the new prey as they wander in.The scam furthers it’s claws by providing 13th stepping for those who provide the “well to do” AA’ers their services(pc repair,tax advisement,landscaping,ski instruction and yes even legal aid).As you provide more for the hierarchy,the more benefits come your way.Killington and a few Rutland sects operate efficiently in this manner.The same chairpeople,GAO’s and speakers.Phoney sponsors abound and get pats on the head ,blueberry pies,free coffee and some employment opportunities for ascertaining new members vital info and deepest information,which puts the local AA hierarchy in a blackmailing position.Then they con a few church fools into the scam,utilize their facilities free of charge and the smoke n mirror road show goes on.In this case Vermont’s Attorney General and state law enforcement need to become involved directly.People who are psychopathic,homicidal,still dealing/using drugs and should be institutionalized frequent and keep any enlightened newbees in line.They could put a major dent in the operation with a sting.Wouldn’t it be grand if ssome local meetings got raided,churches shut down for complicity and then the NYHQ raaided ,padlocked with their “special”people being led away?Wouldn’t take much;afterall they’re a pack of supposed exdrunks running a three card monty /shell game scam,who actually beleive they are Bernie Madoff caliber.Time to take em down.
August 28, 2012 at 9:44 pm
While I agree, I doubt that any takedown will occur as there isn’t any perceived massive damage being inflicted.
August 28, 2012 at 11:37 pm
Hi Anton,
Sorry for my slightly overreactive tone,you know how we alcoholics are(ever heard that one before?) I think Ron’s
right and their is a lot of legally objectionable stuff going on in “the rooms” the big problem being there is no accountability for the
sponsers(who are essentially put into the role of mental health
care provider ) I understand his venom and have read many
equally enraged accounts from many former steppers. Ron I’m
sorry for the abuse you suffered and you are not alone! The
abuse is rampant and inherent in this cults fucked up mean spirited doctrine and mandates. That being said I would
oppose curtailing the right of people to engage in any crap
but the lies of this bullshit must be exposed to the public. This
is why at least this needs to be outlawed in our health care
system and our courts. There may be laws addressing cult
mind controls and if there are I’d love to see 12 step programs
taken down. The bullying of members by other senior members
(most of whom seem to be angry fucked up assholes who
never explored or addressed their serious psychological
problems )is more often the case than not (if you’re lucky
maybe you’ll just get a benign nut job.)This psychological
violence has been directly linked to suicides.If you’ve ever
been in rehab (especially if you’re a minor who can’t leave I
went to Hazeldon at 16) the bullying is extreme. Just saying
this program is the”only way” and you’re going to die(or end up
in jail or institutionalized)if you don’t do exactly as you’re told
is a bullying scare tactic and a complete bald faced lie.
This group is very dangerous and harmful.How has this
bullshit managed to con trained protessionals?Because they
are con artists. They also deny and suppress the existence of other treatment models and health care providers are coerced
and intimidated to endorse this theocratic evil that is connected
to a billion dollar inpatient treatment industry.
Best wishes,
Deborah
August 29, 2012 at 6:20 am
Apology accepted. I try to get to this site as much as possible, but I really have very little time. And you wouldn’t believe the backlog of e-mails, posts, responses, blah that I have. I agree with you on your piont of outlawing 12-step programs when it comes to healthcare. I feel the same about homeopathic “medicine.” It’s been my observation, however, that when things are seen as exceedingly popular, the people as a whole don’t give a shit about any ethical or legal implications. I’m optimistic this’ll change, which is why I wrote the original post, but I’m realistic enough to know that it’ll take time.
August 29, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Simple phone calls to state authorities,agencies such as Health Depts.and if meetings are in a church ,to the Diocese may get things rolling.Also,investigative reporters can help.If anyone here wishes to back up my efforts,feel free to notify any or all of the afformentioned VT authorities.I’ll be glad to reciprocat in your plighted area.
August 29, 2012 at 6:00 pm
Ron,
I think you should look beyond Vermont. This organization
needs to be completely discredited and defunded across the
country. The public perception of 12 step programs needs to
change and our health care providers must stop prescribing
this as “treatment.” Don’t forget as much as it sucks to sit in
a room for an hour listening to morons with no self awareness
or awareness and being subjected to the psychological
violence of said morons it really sucks to get locked up for
months in a “treatment” facility with the same garbage. These
programs are connected to a huge rehab industry and when
someone with a medical degree tells your spouse or parents and
you that this is what you must do to not die it’s pretty strong
persuasion. Going after Vermont groups will be seen as
isolated events in what is an otherwise well intentioned and helpful program. Good luck. I admire your conviction and
willingness to challenge the outrageous legal,societal and
moral violations that lie at the heart of what 12 steps are really
all about. These investigations should be taking place on a widespread federal level.
Best wishes,
Deborah
August 31, 2012 at 7:24 pm
Ron,
This is an issue of extreme importance to our country. I hope
you can reach out and organize the many victims of this evil scam
to inform the intellectually and morally lazy public about the 12
step programs. Research the orange papers Stanton Peele and
Jack Trimpey. The inpatient treatment centers are the huge
money makers civil rights violaters and robber barrens of our
insurance resourses and our citizens. 50% of AA ‘s supposed
2 million members are there under court order. I agree with you
some of the parties involved in the outrageous conning of our
health care system and society should face criminal charges.
Good luck. I wish you well. You (and I) need real therapy to
heal our lives and I hope you can find that (easier said than done the get help mantra never takes insurance status and financial resourses into account.)
Be good to yourself and take care,
Deborah
August 29, 2012 at 5:26 pm
Hi Anton,
I don’t think holistic and homeopathic medicine engage in the
kind of fraud that 12 step programs do nor are they dominating
health care. From what I understand it’s practitioners (or many
of them )are trained in Western medicine and are licensed MDs.
I do see the danger in unaccredited people providing serious
services like health care, legal advice or education. Alternative medicine does have some relationship to facts and results
and Western medicine relys too much on toxic pharmaceutals
and invasive procedures though it obviously saves many people
if we look at health and mortality stats from the past. The scale
of 12 steps is far beyond alternative medicine (which isn’t that
credible or popular with the public.) The Nazis were popular too.
AA is perceived as popular because like the Nazis Bill Wilson
and his modern day counterparts are shameless lying
propagandists. People think it’s great and effective and saves
lives etc. because that’s what they’ve been told. Medicine is
supposed to be based on research and data that is scientifically
and clinically organized and examined. fyi many state supreme
courts and federal circut courts have ruled that manditory 12
step attendance imposed by courts is a violation of separation
of church and state and deemed it illegal (I don’t think any court presented with this issue has ruled otherwise and the federal supreme courts refusal to challenge these rulings is taken
as an implicit agreement with the decisions.) The law is going
in the right direction but the issue of it being a fraudulant
absurd and damaging treatment model has not been examined.
Pinsky is stepping up the infection of our society with these
lies and this puritanical mentality. If you’ve been a victim of
12 steps(and there are many)I would ask you to speak out
organize whatever you can do to expose this rape of our health
care system and our citizens. The public needs to hear what you have to say. Your voices are being drowned out by 12 step
programs and Drouche Pinsky (not a trained psychiatrist.)
Take care,
Deborah
August 29, 2012 at 5:49 pm
You sound more informed than I am on holistic medicine. I don’t know that much about it and don’t even care that much except that if a medicine practice isn’t based in peer-reviewed, verifiable research, I don’t think it should be supported. But that’s the extent of it. Well, that and this whole anti-vax movement, which I realize isn’t about holistic medicine, but it is about denying facts.
I’m curious. What do you consider “alternative” medicine and what facts and results is it related to?
While I agree that medicine has a for-profit motive, that in itself doesn’t make the practice invalid. Yes, pharmaceutical companies want to make money and lobby and that shouldn’t be supported, but that doesn’t discount the valid effects of the ones that are effective.
You also clearly know much more about Bill Wilson than I ever have. Didn’t know he was a propagandist or a Nazi (yes, I know you meant the latter metaphorically–unless you didn’t).
Yeah, I’m aware of some of the court issues which is one of my root problems with the program.
I wouldn’t say I’ve been a victim of the program. Just like I wasn’t ever a victim of a church. I just call bullshit where I see it and someone had made the same claims of AA to me as so many had before, so I wrote the original post to clarify why (I thought) it was all crap.
August 29, 2012 at 6:48 pm
I agree with you about the need for peer reviewed verifiable
research. I’m sure the medical establishment has blocked
any funding for evidence in the area of alternative medicine.
I don’t know a lot about it my understanding is that it uses
natural substances (herbs for example in highly concentrated
forms)instead of synthetic drugs. I saw a Donahue about it
years ago and audience member after audience member said
they’d been treated with multiple Western medical approachs
for years in response to one specific condition and when
they went the alt. medicine route they got results for the first
time. The guys from the AMA sat on the stage rolling their
eyes and engaging in other broad mocking gestures that
clearly indicated they had no verbal rebuttal. I meant the Nazi
thing metaphorically but as it happens the 12 step program
is based on a Protestant sect (of which Wilson was an ardent
member) based on the teachings of Frank Buchinite who
thought Hitler was a great guy.It’s called The Oxford Group.
Bill Wilson cheated on his wife relentlessly and made a ton
of money from sales of the “Big Book” and fucked his buddy
Dr. Bob (a surgeon) co founder of AA out of a share of the
profits.In addition to the court issues I’m concerned about
the health care issues. People with substance abuse problems
usually have emotional and life problems so in addition to
being traumatized(or just having their time wasted)they are not
getting help they need. The medical establishment judges and
the public blindly accepting something so ridiculous at face
value is retarded. The creators of this psychologically and
intellectually fucked up program were not Dr.s(Dr. Bob’s
medical background was irrelavant to this area of mental
health) or scientists. The more you learn about AA and it’s
history the more fucked up it gets.
September 10, 2012 at 4:44 am
Hi Deborah,
Are you seriously suggesting that doctors have en masse colluded to block funding for evidence into alternative medicine? Do you also think the moon landing was faked? Sorry to be impatient, but unless you have evidence for such a claim, i’d suggest the only reason you have it is because you want to.
I don’t ultimately care whether people use herbs or synthetic drugs. I care about what works. So far, there’s no evidence that “homeopathic medicine” works.
You’re willing to accept anecdotal hearsay on homeopathics, but consider doctors colluding against such things? Whether the AMA had any verbal rebuttal is irrelevant to the evidence. Claims of “alternative medicine” should be mocked until demonstrated–just like any other extraordinary claims.
I trust you on your revelations of AA. Doesn’t really surprise me. Whenever there’s money to be made, there’s a charlatan who’s willing to do that which is necessary to make it.
Best,
Anton.
September 10, 2012 at 8:22 am
Hi Anton,
I think you are right about the quackery in alternative medicine
but when Sloane Kettering and his prestigious oncology team
tell my father that what he eats doesn’t impact his health
(rolling their eyes condecendingly in the process) it does speak to
a denial of natural and cheaper things that really promote health
and prevent illness. I have no philosophical objection to western
or eastern medicine, both are valid but the moon landing was
obviously an elaborate hoax. I believe in facts and critical
thinking (this is why I know Elvis is still alive.) Don’t place too much blind faith in the medical establishment. It’s the only
(and best )game in town but the disregard for diet and the
reckless overuse of powerful drugs (often for minor conditions)
is rampant by well meaning medical professionals. The DNC
convention blew me away and I don’t think 12 steps will stay
in our healthcare system on Obama time . Michelle is also
very commited to the nutrition and health of our kids. He’s
all about math and science (boring more into the social sciences)
he’s brilliant and we’re lucky to have him. Romney can’t
out debate him. Makes me very proud of my stupid country.
Take care and best wishes,
Deborah
September 10, 2012 at 8:31 am
Hi Deborah,
Your father had an experience. And trust me, I know well of doctoral condescension. But to discount medical science on the basis of one, or even a thousand doctors, is silly. And I don’t think you could point to a legitimate doctor who truly denies the facts of nutrition and preventative medicine. Homeopathics, on the other hand, actually deny medical science, or make claims of conspiracy.
Maybe I’m not understanding what “eastern” medicine is, but as far as I know there’s only one kind of medicine: that which makes people healthier. Acupuncture doesn’t treat cancer. Chemotherapy does. And so on.
I’m not sure where, other than your father’s experience, you’re getting the idea that doctors discount nutrition.
I didn’t see all the DNC, but I hope you’re right. I actually think Michelle’s better at the game than Barack. Too bad she doesn’t have a penis.
Best,
Anton.
September 10, 2012 at 7:51 pm
Hi Anton,
I don’t discount medical science or fact. While Drs. over the
last few decades have had to accept the relationship between
nutrition and health due to overwhelming and irrefutable evidence
they have very little training or information in this area(I’m not
saying apples cure cancer.) Dietary advice tends to be broad and
generalized (ie:low salt, high protein the elimination of certain
items etc. in terms of any given medical condition.) Processed
chemical laden crap marked low sodium is not good food. I’m
familiar enough with the culture of the medical establishment
to know that nutrition is pretty much ignored or at best an
afterthought. There is an indoctrination towords pharmaceuticals
with little restraint or consideration that these drugs are powerful,
toxic and can be dangerous. I respect the acomplishments of
modern medicine and fully understand that many lives have
been saved and prolonged by these scientific advances. Do I
think it’s very possible that safer, less harsh and effective
treatments have been suppressed by drug companies and
the medical establishment? Do you think it’s possible that
cleaner ,safer and cheaper forms of energy have been suppressed? The Bush family and their cronies controlled the
White House for 3 terms Sr. was head of the CIA (those guys
are pretty much on the up and up from what I’ve heard) and
Jr. and Sr. both started wars that were clearly connected to
the family’s financial interests. Healthy people are medicated
for trivial ailments and emotional issues in huge numbers to
the extent that it’s been totally normalized in our culture.
Look at Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston niether of whom
had a medical condition. Look at the fact that the medical
community totally endorses 12 step programs as real (and
the only) treatment. While they do cure and control disease
they don’t promote health. I have heard theories that the goal
is to keep people alive but sick to maximize profits. Couldn’t
speak to that definatively but I do know psychiatric hospitals
have been found to be locking people up and giving them
treatment they don’t want or need. These practices have been so rampant there has been a lot of government intervention.
Pat Schroeder(congresswoman from Colorado) headed a
commitee to look into this in the early 90s and drew strong
conclusions about the widespread existence of these practices.
Giving people pills they don’t need is also connected to profit
and it’s very possible exercise yoga music meditation whatever
would help whatever malaise or anxiety is bothering them
as much or more than weakening their system with a drug.
I wouldn’t put blind faith in this industry. I think the bottom line
is that healthcare (like education) needs to be socialised as
it’s function is too important to be subject to corruption because
of greed. Remember while many Drs. are very well intentioned
the hospitals drug companies and insurance companies are
corporations and you know what their bottom line is.
Take care,
Deborah
September 17, 2012 at 6:04 pm
I’m with you on a lack of nutrition education and the interests of individual pharmaceutical companies or even associations of companies. I just get nervous when people suggest conspiracy theories or that scientists are colluding against homeopathic “medicine.” In my opinion, the question of whether homeopathics are effective is irrelevant to pharmaceutical companies. Fact is, if they thought they could make money off the stuff, they would (and maybe they do).
August 30, 2012 at 4:07 am
Anton and all others who might find this to be of interest and
importance google aa is a cult and read Jack Trimpey (I think the site
says ofcourse it’s a cult when I googled it it was the first listing
under this topic.) It is a brilliant and well informed breakdown of
the whole 12 step hijacking of our health care system, public funds
and our society. I’m reading echos of what I’ve been saying all
over the web this is not about a few harmless wackos. And Anton though I assume you haven’t had substance abuse issues members
of your family have so this affects you more directly than you know.
Sorry the name of the leader of the Oxford group was Buchman
so I don’t know everything (unlike AA.) I know and understand that
you’re busy (live your life!) If you could pass this on to parties who
have the time, motivation and inclination to act on this very serious
issue it would help many and the society as a whole. I agree with
you these things take time but from what I’m seeing on line that
time is coming soon.
Take care,
Deborah
September 19, 2012 at 12:17 pm
Regarding a.a.
These comments are peurile and ignorant.
It is a simple proven fact that working the programme of a.a. Does work.
I think the post writer obviously has issues he needs to deal with so he can have an openminded approach to life.
I suggest he attend a few open meetings and hear how many hopeless alcoholics have gained useful lives by using the suggested program of aa
September 19, 2012 at 12:21 pm
I actually stopped reading this when the post writer showed his ignorance by continuously swearing. Honestly son you cant make people listen by swearing.
September 19, 2012 at 5:19 pm
Hi Mark,
You’re certainly welcome to your opinion regarding my puerility, but, just so you know, my opinions are not borne of ignorance. I was raised in the 12-step programs, Ala-Non, AA, and Ala-Teen, so all that I’ve expressed is either from direct experience or second-hand experience.
You’re right. I swore. And I agree that it wasn’t the best idea. I was emotional at the time that I wrote the post; I probably should’ve given myself a bit of time before sitting down to write it. I didn’t. Oh well.
You claim that it’s a “simple proven fact” that AA works. I wonder what your evidence is for that. While certain aspects of the program do seem to have some positive social effects, namely the charge to take responsibility for one’s actions, I’m sure you’ll agree that such a charge is neither exclusive to nor originating from the program. Such a notion is basic human civility.
And then there’s the bullshit. I challenge you to cite one single piece of evidence that there is a direct, causal link between a “higher power” and anyone’s recovery. What you’ll find is that the two variables are entirely unrelated. Some people who trust a higher power recover, some don’t. Some people who don’t trust a higher power recover, some don’t. If this is the case, which, by the way, it is, then there’s zero connection between one of the program’s core doctrines (and thus the program itself) and recovery.
Finally, I suggest I have more of an open mind than most people you’ll meet, including yourself. I am always willing to be proved wrong on my convictions given evidence. So, like I say, if you have any objectively verifiable evidence to back up your claims, I’m happy to listen.
Best,
Anton.
September 20, 2012 at 3:04 am
Mark,
You’re a douche. You’re also a liar. AA does not work and it can be psychologically harmful. The disease model has been
overwhelmingly disproven by scientific research and data. This
cult was made up by the grandiose and extremely abusive con man Bill Wilson. Your bullying and baseless assertions and accusations are typical of AA tactics. Explain why this model of treatment has no trained professionals. Mental health is a science
(and an art.) My deepest sympathies go out to anyone who has
the misfortune to have you as a “sponsor.” From your condesending tone and outdated attitudes about profanity I’d
guess you’re a long time member of this cult. I’m searching for
les mots propres in the words of Gustave Flaubert
they just came to me FUCK YOU. Sorry Anton for degrading
the spirit of civil discourse this site upholds.
Best wishes to all who have sought escape from emotional
pain with drugs and alcohol. Take good care of yourself.
Deborah
September 20, 2012 at 5:26 pm
Hi Deborah,
I’ve prided myself on not censoring anyone on here, even when and especially when they attack me, but for practicality, I won’t approve a flame war because it’s exhausting, so I’d prefer in the future if you simply didn’t use any ad hominems, and I should warn that if you choose to comment using only an ad hominem (and nothing else), then I most likely won’t approve it. Beyond that, if you and Mark wanna have at it in a polite way, I say go for it.
Best,
Anton.
September 20, 2012 at 6:08 pm
Hi Anton,
Mark’s aggression towards you was more extreme than my use of profanity
(which was very funny in my opinion.) I did not use only an ad hominem (don’t I get any credit for the euriadite literary reference?) I wouldn’t waste my energy engaging with this 12
step bully. The influence these lies are having on our health care system and society needs to be exposed and debunked. Speaking
of free speach check out a website called Citizen Warrior. I think you’ll find it interesting and informative.
Take care, Deborah
September 20, 2012 at 6:16 pm
Hi Deborah,
You’re right. He did call me puerile. And we could debate all day long which is the worst ad hominem. I just wanted to make clear that I don’t want to deal with a conversation that boils down to that and nothing more. Yes, you said other substantive things. I’m just being cautious.
Best,
Anton.
September 20, 2012 at 7:37 pm
Anton,
I think truth should trump caution. I think the extensive things
I’ve written on your blog indicate my conversation goes far beyond inflamitory semantics. The lies and bullying tactics of
Mark and his ilk are exactly why 12 step programs have conned
their way into American society. In a country that promises the
right of freedom of speech censorship can’t be tolerated. Speaking of which check out the Citizen Warrior site. I hope this
Mark fellow (that’s a socially acceptable euphamism for dickhead
douchebag) will shun your site and I hope the people with substance abuse issues presented with 12 step programs as
a solution to their problems are protected from the toxic pathology
that is this “program.” Take care, Deborah
September 20, 2012 at 8:37 pm
Deborah,
“Douchebag” is an opinion. “Liar,” to some degree, is as well. To say someone is a liar is to imply their intent to speak dishonesty knowing that it’s dishonest. To say that Mark is wrong is true. But without being able to read his mind, we can’t honestly say that he’s a liar.
Best,
Anton.
September 20, 2012 at 10:13 pm
You are right and this crossed my mind as I was typing the word.
That being said the statement that AA works 100% percent of the
time and is the only way is a lie and 12 step programs could not
and would not have the “success” and exclusive domain they do
without a lot of lying. This is not real healthcare and beyond that
I put forth the concept that the recovery industry (including non
12 step based programs) is a false construct as a healthy and
productive life can’t be defined in terms of “sobriety” or the lack
of substance abuse. I think a lot of people persue this end because they are told chemical excess is their problem. It’s not
healthy but many things are unhealthy. Why are drugs and
alcohol singled out? Fuck Bill Wilson and fuck Mark. I’m sure
he’s meanspirited and is hurting wounded people with damaged lives. How has this prick been awarded the role of mental health
care provider? My opinion is he’s a douchebag. Wait, the lab
results just came back he’s a douchebag. Do you want to break it
to him or should I? I calls em like I sees em. Please excuse my
hostility but I don’t think it’s without cause (and it’s funny.) Once
again best wishes and good luck to all who are over indulging in
drugs and or alcohol to escape emotional pain. I hope you will
heal yourselves and your lives. Be well, Deborah
September 21, 2012 at 5:10 pm
Hi Deborah,
Though I wouldn’t go so far as saying any one individual lied about AA’s effectiveness, I’m almost willing to say that there’s a system-wide lie going on. The reason for this is my whole life when I’ve even suggested criticism of the program(s), I’ve immediately been met with “It helps a lot of people.” Let’s just say this is true. The question is, how does the claim-maker know this? They don’t, of course. Not a single person I’ve talked to about this could cite one single piece of verifiable evidence of the claim that AA helps people. It’s all anecdotal at best. But there’s this cultural narrative–lie, if you will–that says that the program works and it’s socially unacceptable to suggest otherwise. It’s really weird how that works.
Best,
Anton.
September 21, 2012 at 5:53 pm
Hi Anton,
It’s not weird it’s bullying and propagandizing. Bill Wilson
was a con man and the programs reflect his psychology.
Not only do the programs claim to be effective but they claim
to be the “only way” and assert that anyone who doesn’t do
exactly what some untrained”sponsor” and the program
dictates will end up dead in jail or institutionalized. These are
blatent lies that hurt people who want and/or need help with
their lives and emotions. AA may result in short or long term
“sobriety” for some but that doesn’t mean they’re healthy or
happy. The 12 steps rejection of harm reduction increases
tragic outcomes for those who engage in substance abuse.
I once again present the idea that abstinance=health and
substance use=disease as a false construct and a gross
oversimplification of human psychology and behavior. This
syndicate has lied and coerced its way into our healthcare system and society. It is evil and needs to be exposed.
Take care,
Deborah
September 21, 2012 at 10:12 pm
Hi Anton,
I posted a comment but my computer went down so I’ll retype it. It’s not weird it’s bullying and propagandizing. Bill
Wilson was a con man and the programs reflect his psychology. Not only do the programs claim to be effective
they claim to be the “only way” and assert that anyone who
doesn’t do exactly what some untrained “sponsor” and the
program dictate will end up dead in jail or institutionalized.
These are blatent lies that hurt people who want and/or need
help with their lives and emotions. AA may result in short or
long term “sobriety” for some but that doesn’t mean they’re healthy or happy. The 12 step rejection of harm reduction
increases tragic outcomes for those who engage in substance
abuse. I once again present the idea that abstinance=health
and substance use=disease is a false construct and a gross
oversimplification of human psychology and behavior.
This syndicate has lied and coerced its way into our healthcare system and society. It is evil and needs to be
exposed.
Take care,
Deborah
September 23, 2012 at 2:44 am
Hi Deborah,
The comment posted. No worries. As for exposure, share the link to this site!
Best,
Anton.
September 23, 2012 at 11:39 pm
deborah Says:
September 21, 2012 at 5:53 pm
Hi Anton,
It’s not weird it’s bullying and propagandizing. Bill Wilson
was a con man and the programs reflect his psychology.
Not only do the programs claim to be effective but they claim
to be the “only way” and assert that anyone who doesn’t do
exactly what some untrained”sponsor” and the program
dictates will end up dead in jail or institutionalized. These are
blatent lies that hurt people who want and/or need help with
their lives and emotions. AA may result in short or long term
“sobriety” for some but that doesn’t mean they’re healthy or
happy. The 12 steps rejection of harm reduction increases
tragic outcomes for those who engage in substance abuse.
I once again present the idea that abstinance=health and
substance use=disease as a false construct and a gross
oversimplification of human psychology and behavior. This
syndicate has lied and coerced its way into our healthcare system and society. It is evil and needs to be exposed.
Take care,
Deborah
September 28, 2012 at 7:27 am
Hi Anton,
As I said Christianity and Judaism are stupid. Islam is evil
and the idea that all religions are rooted in the same moral,
psychological and political/social intentions is a manipulation
that those who oppose and question religion and those who blindly accept religion as sacred embrace. Islam is just as
bent on world domination as Hitler was, it’s a core principle
and mandate in the doctrine. Keep in mind we can’t compare
the violent and extreme passages in the old and new testaments to the very literal and specific orders of Islamic
holy scriptures. Have you heard any public condemnations
of the violence this religious and POLITICAL system and set
of laws has enacted upon the west and Muslims from the “moderate Muslim community”. We are being lied to there is overwhelming support for terrorism in the
Islamic world and amongst Muslims living in the west. Check
out citizen warrior to really learn about what Islam is. The west has been very naive and uninformed (this is due in part to the
lies perpetrated by Muslims which is morally allowed if the cause of Islam is advanced the word is Taquea not the
spelling but who cares) The road to hell is paved with good
intentions. Europe (especially England ) may very well be over.
Freedom of speech is already being curtailed and intimidated
by violence in our own societies. England has allowed civil
and criminal cases to be decided by Sharia courts and France
has no go zones they won’t enter that have been taken over
legally and politically by Muslim communities. Our public school and college curriculims are being dictated and censored in regard to Islam. I’m not being alarmist. Go to the
blog. I’ll cut and paste something I posted about the lefts understanding of the cituation(IT’S ISLAM!)
Take care,
Deborah
September 30, 2012 at 3:07 pm
Well,it’s interesting that several people who have assisted our efforts to expose the AA Con game in Killington/Rutland have left or were forced out of their jobs.The lacadasical churches ,diocese and governments involved are a tad weary of this for sure.Keep posting,keep exposing the charade of charades.
December 4, 2012 at 1:01 pm
Can’t cut and paste this. I’m disgusted with computers. I’ll try
again but please contact Stanton Peele. This issue is of huge
importance and has very far reaching effects on us all.
September 24, 2012 at 10:59 am
deborahbeth
9/5/2012 11:57:04 PM
12 step programs are a complete fraud and anyone
who insists otherwise either been conned by the
bald faced lies, propagandizing and underhanded
bullying of this dangerous and extremely politically
powerful cult that has taken over our healthcare
system and infiltrated our justice system or currently
in the throes of 12 step brainwashing and intimidation techniques (that only lasts for deeply
disturbed people the vast majority of those who are
involved in 12 step programs eventually see how
sick and ridiculous it is and leave oftentimes emotionally scarred and very angry with the programs.) A huge percentage of people decide
early on when exposed to AA that it’s nuts and abusive. The AA numbers and success rates have
been self reported by the organization. Upon clinical
examination(which is hard because the organization is so secretive and tells outright lies)
there is overwhelming irrefutable evidence that
the programs statistically are worse than nothing.
AA doesn’t keep members it cons and coerces
new members in a revolving door system.It’s
non-profit claim is a ruse as the book sales made
Bill Wilson very wealthy ( he was a despicable
con man and deluded pathological bully who treated his wife and the AA members exploitatively
and abusively, check out his real unsanitised bio.)
This program has taken over a billion dollar treatment industry that is bilking our health care
resources and citizens of money and the real
mental health care they may need. Do some
(non AA suplied/supported ) research if you’re
so inclined. AA is really evil in its philosophies
and practices. The more you learn the uglier
it gets. This is doing more damage to our country
than the public understands. I would like to see
court rulings that find AA is not real treatment
(which can be easily scientifically proven) so that
federal and private insurance funds can be taken
away from this scamming of our society
September 24, 2012 at 11:17 am
Hi Anton,
My comment didn’t post but I hope it provided some insights for you. We have and had (as teens) the intellectual and psychological
development to disregard 12 step programs. I cut and pasted (I’m
practicing this stuff it’s all new to me) something I posted on a site
called Legal Lad. As for the link forwarding I have no clue. If you are
so inclined cut and paste anything I’ve written to whatever sites you
think would be most effective in dealing with this issue.
Best wishes,
Deborah
September 26, 2012 at 1:11 am
for sure a bit off topic, but for whatever reason as responses accumulate in the thread the comment section begins to constrict on the horizontal and as a result it lengthens in the vertical. When it gets down to just a single word per line it strangely begins to seem as if an experimental or conceotional poem.
But I have enjoyed the discussion hugely.
September 26, 2012 at 3:48 am
Dammit! Didn’t know that was happening.
It’s all Deborah’s fault!
September 26, 2012 at 9:11 pm
Hi Anton,
The last few posts are only accessable by clicking on reply and
don’t even get me started on the logistical, economic and
sociological effects of these overly complicated procedural steps
that define communication and professional oppourtunity in the
computer age. Morons are being empowered and those who use
logic and language to navigate these cryptic arbitrary mechanics
are at a loss. I do accept blame for the technical gliches on your
blog and I must admit I am half Jewish and responsible for most
of the wars and human suffering throughout the history of humanity (despite our seeming peacefulness and contributions
to mankind we have been secretly plotting in a passive aggressive way to bring destruction to all societies). Do check
out the Citizen Warrior blog and if you’re so inclined ,spread the word. Christianity and Judiasm are stupid. Islam is evil. Radical
Islam and Islamic Extremists are misnomers. This is like calling
examination and criticism of Nazis discriminatory (once again
religion is a set of beliefs and behaviors not an immutable human
characteristic). I am very dissapointed with the ignorant knee jerk
responses of the left (of which I’m a proud card carrying member)
to the dishonest manipulative tactics of the Muslim mainstream.
Mohammed is no different than Hitler. Europe may be over.
Take Care,
Deborah
September 26, 2012 at 9:24 pm
Hi Deborah,
In case you haven’t done this already, you may want to just start a new thread by doing an original reply.
I don’t know enough about Mohammed to sufficiently comment except that I’m not sure that he intentioanlly set about the annihilation of an entire culture, and certainly not in the systematic, state-sponsored way in which Hitler did.
But then Hitler was in the majority. Europe has always been very antisemitic and Hitler’s age was no different. Mohammed was up against those who thought he was full of shit.
I almost think Muslims and Mormons have more in common.
Best,
Anton.
September 27, 2012 at 12:25 am
Hi Anton,
I don’t even know what an original thread means. It’s not self
explanitory hence my point about the mechanics of these machines
needing to be more user friendly. Mormons are whack (as I like to say about Romney you believe in magic underwear, you’re not getting my vote for leader of the free world) but that being said, Islam
is much closer to Nazism psychologically and philisophically than
Moronism (that’s a pun not a typo). Mormons don’t engage in the
acts of violence and intolerence that Muslims do which are directly
commanded by the Islamic holy scriptures. The west is ignorant
about what Islam really is and that so called moderate Muslims are
sympathetic and support terrorists in logistical and monetary ways.
This religion is a brainwashing cult that uses threats of violence
and murder to keep its members obedient. Check out Citizen Warrior. Fuck you Islam. Mohammed was a stone cold psychopath!
Best Wishes,
Deborah
September 28, 2012 at 4:18 am
Hi Deborah,
I may have already mentioned this, but just scroll to the bottom and leave a new comment.
I am largely ignorant of Islam. I’m only slightly less ignorant of Mormonism, but I am aware of the magic underwear. Though when it really gets down to it, I don’t know that magic underwear is any more nutty than transubstantiation or Jewish liches.
Best,
Anton.
September 28, 2012 at 7:39 am
Anonymous September 13, 2012 4:40 PM
I have seen rampant false “but look what we do” comments on line by people who think they’re being
progressive and free thinking. This
is morally and intellectually lazy.
I find it offensive as a citizen of a Western democracy that this potentially self defeating rhetoric
is mindlessly spewn forth by immature idiots with no real intellect who have gotten no facts
or given any serious thought to the
issues. I am female and very aware
of and angered by our sexism which
is sometimes covert and subtle as we pay lip service to equality for women and HAVE LAWS DEMANDING IT! I would never equate it with the treatment of women in the Islamic world (which is a direct result of
Islamic doctrine and law.)To do so is to disregard what I would imagine is one of the most extreme and large scale occurances of human right abuses in the
history of Mankind. The shortcomings of Christianity are
irrelevant to the tyranny, violence
and evil that is Islam. And don’t
cite things that happened hundreds
of years ago. We have developed into a modern society with values
including rights,justice,equality
and human decency. When we fall short of our ambitious and noble
goals for this society that does not make us as bad,cruel,violent,
unjust and barbaric as Islamic theocracies are. One cannot help but notice that the US detractors
with their ignorant yeah buts have nothing negative to say about the Islamic world. They know next to
nothing about Islam. I’ve heard many people say the West has made
these societies what they are. Its
not our foreign policy it’s Islam.We didn’t force it on them(it was there long before the USA
was even created )but they would force it on us if they could.These
stupid and dangerous comments make me angry. Military and foreign policy decisions made by elected politicians(that many Americans may object to,not know about until after the fact and over which they
exert no direct control)are not the same thing as violent mobs of citizens taking to the street or huge crowds cheering for the deaths of Westerners or Israelies.
Shoving someone is not worse or the same as shooting someone. To insist it is is thoughtless and dishonest. I can’t give this behavior a free pass especially
when those who espouse ths garbage
are so arrogent and sure they’re
seeing through the status quo and
challenging the powers that be. Abbie hoffman is turning over in his grave.This is a great blog and
the only informed and intelligent
discourse I”ve seen or heard about this very important issue.Thank you!
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September 29, 2012 at 8:40 pm
After revising, adding to and editing Understanding Muhammad since its first release in 2008, I am now happy with the final result and will not alter it again. The sixth edition will be going to print and will be available from any bookstore in North America. Meanwhile, I have stopped the sale of the fifth edition. The new edition should be released in the fall of 2012. I would like also to thank all the friends who commented on the book and gave me constructive criticism.
_____________
Since September 11, 2001, there have been over 18,000 terrorist attacks, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians and a lot more injuries, throughout the world. The perpetrators of these crimes were not monsters; they were Muslims. They were pious people who believed and acted in accordance with their faith. There are millions more who think like them and are ready to do the same.
If you think Islamic terrorism is a new phenomenon, think again. Islam owes its success to terrorism. The prophet of Islam bragged, “I have been made victorious with terror“. [Bukhari: 4.52. 220] Since the day Muhammad set foot in Medina, he started his campaign of terror. His followers have been doing the same ever since.
Muslims are intolerant, supremacist, bullying, and violent. They are highly inflammable and can explode if they are not treated preferentially and with respect. At the same time, they abuse others. This is psychopathology.
To understand Muslims, one must understand their prophet. Muslims worship and emulate Muhammad. Islam is Muhammadanism. Only by understanding him can one know what makes them tick.
Understanding Muhammad is a psychobiography of Allah’s Prophet. Historians tell us that Muhammad used to withdraw to a cave, spending days wrapped in his thoughts. He heard bells ringing and had ghostly visions. He thought he had become demon possessed, but his wife reassured him that he had become a prophet. Convinced of his status, he was intolerant of those who rejected him, assassinated those who criticized him, raided, looted, and massacred entire populations. He reduced thousands to slavery, raped, and allowed his men to rape female captives. All of this, he did with a clear conscience and a sense of entitlement.
He was magnanimous to those who admired him, but vengeful to those who did not. He believed he was the most perfect human creation and the universe’s raison d’être. Muhammad was no ordinary man. He was a psychopathic narcissist.
Understanding Muhammad, ventures beyond the stories. Focusing on the “why” rather than the “what,” it unravels the mystique of the most influential and yet enigmatic man in history.
Muhammad believed in his own cause. He was so certain of the reality of his hallucinations that he expected everyone to believe in them too. He would make his Allah indignantly ask “What! Do you then dispute with him [Muhammad] as to what he saw?” (Q.53:12) This is psychopathology. Why should others believe in what he saw? Wasn’t it up to him to prove what he saw was real? Only a psychopathic narcissist expects others to believe in his claims without asking for evidence.
Muhammad was an orphan. Spurned by his mother in his infancy and left in the care of a Bedouin couple, he had a loveless childhood. He then passed to the care of his grandfather and uncle who took pity on him and spoiled him. Not receiving love at a time he needed unconditional love and not receiving discipline when he needed to learn about boundaries, he developed narcissistic personality disorder, a trait that made him a megalomaniac bereft of conscience. He fantasized about unlimited power, expected praise and admiration, believed he was special, and expected others to believe him and go along with his ideas and plans. He took advantage of others, was jealous, yet believed others were jealous of him, and was hurt when rejected, even killing those who deserted him. He lied and deceived, feeling entitled and justified in doing so. All these are traits of narcissistic personality disorder.
Thanks to another mental illness, temporal lobe epilepsy, the prophet of Islam had vivid hallucinations which he interpreted as mystical and divine intimations. When he claimed he heard voices, saw angels and other ghostly entities, he was not lying. He could not distinguish reality from fantasy.
Muhammad also suffered from obsessive compulsive disorder, causing his fixation on numbers, rituals and stringent rules. OCD explains why he lived such an austere life and why his religion is filled with so many absurd rules.
In late life Muhammad was affected by acromegaly, a disease caused by excessive production of a growth hormone, resulting in large bones, cold and fleshy hands and feet and coarse facial features such as enlarged lips, nose and tongue. Acromegaly occurs after the age of 40 and usually kills the patient in his early 60s. It causes impotence, while TLE increases libido. This explains Muhammad’s sexual vagaries in his old age and why he had such an insatiable craving for sex. He would visit all his 9 wives in one night to touch and fondle them, without having intercourse. His impotence explains his insecurity, paranoia, and intense jealousy for his young wives. He ordered them to cover themselves, lest other men cast a lusting eye on them. Today, half a billion Muslim women veil themselves, because Muhammad was impotent. Muhammad’s illnesses explain a lot of mysteries of Islam.
The combination of all these psychological disorders and his unusual physiognomy made Muhammad a phenomenon that set him apart from ordinary people. His uneducated followers interpreted his differences as signs of his prophethood. Like devotees of all cults, they rose to champion his cause with dedication. By defying death and butchering others they made Islam the world’s second largest religion, now the biggest threat to world peace and the survival of human civilization.
Why is it important to know Muhammad? Because over a billion people try to be like him and do as he did. Consequently, the insanity of one man is bequeathed to all his followers. It is by understanding him that we can see through them, and be able to predict these unpredictable people.
We live in a dangerous time. When a fifth of humanity worships a psychopath, eulogizes suicide bombing and thinks killing and martyrdom are ultimate acts of piety, the world becomes a dangerous place. When these people acquire the atomic bomb, the earth becomes a powder keg.
Islam is a cult. It is time to wake up and realize that this cult is a threat to mankind and there can be no co-existence with Muslims. As long as Muslims believe in Muhammad, they are a threat to others and to themselves. Muslims must leave Islam, leave their culture of hate and join the rest of mankind as fellow humans, or non-Muslims must separate themselves from them, ban Islam, end the immigration of Muslims and send home those who plot against democracy and refuse to integrate.
Islam is incompatible with democracy. It is a warring creed that uses democracy to destroy it and to establish itself as a worldwide totalitarian regime. The only way to avert the clash between this barbarity and civilization and a world disaster, is to expose the fallacy of Islam and demystify it. Muslims must be weaned from Islam for humanity to live in peace.
Understanding Muhammad is imperative for both Muslims and non-Muslims. This book makes that task easy.
Reviews of Understanding Muhammad
1 FJordman
September 30, 2012 at 5:44 am
to aholzman
I am a strong Obama supporter and very proud to call him my president. I am very dissapointed in our (and Europe’s ) political left’s Islamic apologists. Those who support progressive values (which the Republican Party does not but they are not Islamic! ) should be opposed to Islam, its doctrine and its practices. I will cut and paste something I posted on Citizen Warrior (amazing blog I am trying to spread the word we must learn from Europe’s
example, this is not alarmist.) The Muslim deception of the West in all fairness was in large part due to the lies and
manipulations of the Muslim communities here and abroad. You will see in my post however that I don’t excuse the
West completely. In defense of Obama I have to say these are matters of national security so prompt and full
disclosure are sometimes not in our strategic interests and he did find Bin Laden and kill him (this culture of intimidation the Islamic world has imposed on the West while posturing as victims should not be met with
negotiation or cultural sensitivity.) Food for thought, any embassy in a foreign country is legally considered the soil
of that country. When members of that mob broke into the embassy desacrated property and committed attempted murder and murder these were crimes commited in our country over which our government has legal and
judicial authority.
Anonymous September 13, 2012 4:40 PM
to aholzman
I am a strong Obama supporter and very proud to call him my president. I am very dissapointed in our (and Europe’s ) political left’s Islamic apologists. Those who support progressive values (which the Republican Party does not but they are not Islamic! ) should be opposed to Islam, its doctrine and its practices. I will cut and paste something I posted on Citizen Warrior (amazing blog I am trying to spread the word we must learn from Europe’s
example, this is not alarmist.) The Muslim deception of the West in all fairness was in large part due to the lies and
manipulations of the Muslim communities here and abroad. You will see in my post however that I don’t excuse the
West completely. In defense of Obama I have to say these are matters of national security so prompt and full
disclosure are sometimes not in our strategic interests and he did find Bin Laden and kill him (this culture of intimidation the Islamic world has imposed on the West while posturing as victims should not be met with
negotiation or cultural sensitivity.) Food for thought, any embassy in a foreign country is legally considered the soil
of that country. When members of that mob broke into the embassy desacrated property and committed attempted murder and murder these were crimes commited in our country over which our government has legal and
judicial authority.
Anonymous September 13, 2012 4:40 PM
October 31, 2012 at 7:15 pm
I never was an alcoholic. I have experience with a few that have recovered in AA. I’ve been to a couple open meetings. AA is a life saver for many people and they have formed lasting relationships with like minded people in the program. I’m am against all religions, but AA only refers to a higher power – it is whatever you want it to be. One can believe in their own or choose the non-sense Jesus or other made up God. I’ve known people that have tried the program and failed. If you don’t live it you go back to drinking – that is what I have seen. And it is true that courts do send drunk drivers to AA. I don’t know the statistics, but some must recover – I suppose it is the best option available. There is a lot of negativity here about AA, but how about offering up something better with your remarks. Self responsibility is very difficult to learn for most people and some that think they are really are not. If people can learn it at AA then that is a BIG BIG deal. You can’t learn it at church or school or work. All in all I say AA is an excellent organization and there are thousands out who know that from experience, so rather than tear it down, go after real poison – religion – the opiate of the masses, the fairy tale that many dummies believe and live and will die for – that is the real enemy of self-responsibility, common sense, and logic.
November 3, 2012 at 1:38 am
You have no idea what you’re talking about. There has been
vast clinical scientific data and research about substance use/
abuse patterns as well as 12 step programs. The success of
AA has been self reported by the organization which uses it’s
claim of anonymity to remain secretive and free from accountability (fyi there is no professional or legal obligation
for members to protect the privacy of anyone outside the rooms
and the contents of confessions in a meeting or to a sponsor/group member are admissable in a court of law.) AA
is worse than nothing it has led to suicides and beyond not
addressing the emotional and enviormental issues that trigger
drug and alcohol problems it’s abusive and damaging. Think
about the reckless nature of any arbitrary untrained person
being put in the role of mental health care provider. Addiction is
not a disease, not progressive and usually doesn’t result in death.
These are lies told by AA which is far from non profit. The rates
of people quitting drugs/alcohol are the same if not higher for
those who decide to quit on their own yet this group claims to
be the only way and promises death, institutionalization or jail
for everyone who doesn’t mindlessly submit to the will of a
higher power (and their sponsor.) Bill W(ilson) was a fucked up
fascist abusive con man who continued to exibit said traits long
after he stopped drinking. Everything I said about 12 steps is
based on factual research and the first hand accounts of those
exposed to it. The vast majority of people step away and AA does
not save lives that is a lie. You also can’t be anti religion and pro
12 steps. They are worse than religion this is a cult based in an
into;erent bullying sin based philosophy. The god concept was
broadened to higher power(semantics) to extend the cults membership to non religious people. It is evil and hurting many
lives as well as bilking our health care industry out of billions of
dollars. Do some research before assuming this is an excellent
organization. I know you mean well but you and society have been lied to by this scam. Read the Orange Papers and Stanton
Peele (a psychologist and lawyer with ivy league credentials.)
Forced participation in AA has been found to violate separation of
church and state by one court decision after another all of whom
found the program to be overtly religious. Be well and take care.
November 4, 2012 at 6:19 am
Hi Rick,
I’ll address a couple of your points.
1. As you said, “formed lasting relationships.” That’s the lifesaver. You’d have to otherwise prove that AA is.
2. AA does refer to a higher power, for which it provides neither definition nor evidence. It’s a meaningless phrase.
3. As you say, it is whatever you choose it to be, which renders it entirely meaningless. If one’s going to give one’s faults over to the care of whatever one wants the receiver (higher power) to be, then just cut out the middle man and accept personal responsibility for one’s faults. This is the fundamental premise of the program that I’ve never understood. It’s predicated on the assumption that one must turn over one’s faults to someone else. But there’s no reason why this must be true.
4. I understand that you’ve seen those who don’t live the program and go back to drinking. But, by definition, this is anecdotal evidence. The same can be said of any number of claims of salvation from any number of vices. There is zero evidence that AA is necessarily causal in the anecdotes of sobriety told of it.
5. That courts send drunks to AA isn’t evidence that AA is the best option. And as I pointed out in the post, the action of sending drunks to AA is a violation of the First Amendment of the US Constitution.
6. Here’s my offer of “something better” than AA. Take responsibility for your actions. That’s it because that’s all that’s necessary. But…
7. It’s not my responsibility to come up with “something better” than AA. I never claimed to be a recovery expert. All I claimed was that it’s bullshit.
8. Self responsibilty may be difficult, but that’s no excuse to A. allow people not to practice it or B. break the law by having government officials ignore the Constitution.
9. If people can learn personal responsibility at AA, they can learn it anywhere.
10. I challenge you to prove your assertion that persona responsibility can’t be learned elsewhere.
11. I agree with your assessment of religion, but on this site, I endeavor to go after bullshit–the harmful and the seemingly harmless–equally.
Best,
Anton.
December 4, 2012 at 2:14 am
aa was formed by a narcissistic control freak who preached
about god as the answer even though he was fucking other woman
behind his wifes back. he preached anonymity yet he had his picture
in newspapers and lived off the money from the big book for his
miserable life. he even wrote the chapter TO WIVES because his wife
wanted to do it but he knew that if she did, people would find out
what a lying hypocritical scumbag he was. aa is responsible for
sick, mentally ill people not seeking proper treatment and dying.
it is bullshit, religious garbage. bill wilson dropped acid to try
and treat his depression but did he change his sobriety date? no,
of course not. i’m glad hes dead.he lied and condemned sick people
to a life of mediocrity and servitude just so he could get what he
always wanted.attention.
December 4, 2012 at 12:47 pm
Great job tom! I’m going to cut and paste a letter I sent to Stanton Peele (lawyer and psychologist ) today.
January 2, 2013 at 7:55 am
[...] funny to me, though, is I imagine the most popular and not best written post seems to be my rant on AA. While I’m glad that’s brought people here, I kind of wish it had been something [...]
January 3, 2013 at 7:54 am
The control of 12 step temperance prohibitionist policy, morality
and psychology is dangerous far beyond some new age twit at a dinner party (and don’t you ever try to catagorize and dismiss me as such because my intellect is fierce and formidable I will rip you to shreds with facts. logic and genius insight. That’s a promise. )12 step programs and the financial, health care , legal
cultural and social impact are of profoundly far reaching meaning
and consequence philosophically and practically. Serious stuff.
April 11, 2013 at 6:20 am
So now you think you can rip me to shreds with your fierce intellect, eh? Go ahead. Do it.
February 26, 2013 at 7:27 am
I’m an atheist who has been recovering in AA quite happily for seven years. I have no problem working the program. It’s a shame when people conflate their atheism with wilful ignorance. But hey ho, it’s your lookout.
It might have some characteristics of a cult but how many cults would allow you to come and say ‘I think this is bullshit’ indefinitely? Or would allow you to come and go as you please?
Granted, there are meetings which are unwell or zealous and that don’t give the newcomer the love, acceptance and patience I was given. That’s a shame.
Anyway, if you don’t need us, fair enough, have a good life. If at any point you feel you do, we’d love to see you. Oh and maybe if you don’t understand something ask someone to explain it. It’s ok to be angry though, I understand.
February 27, 2013 at 5:52 pm
Hi Woop,
I wonder if you read what I wrote because with over a decade of experience in the 12-step programs, I’m hardly willfully ignorant. And if you consider my experience willful ignorance, what would you consider knowledgeable?
Honestly, my characterization of AA as a cult was a touch dramatic as what you say is true. At the same time, however, with, as you admit, its cult-like features, it is cult-like.
As I mentioned in the post, my two biggest problems with the program are 1. that it preaches concepts for which it has zero evidence (higher power among other things) and 2. that it receives unmerited privilege from the government.
Well, I don’t need AA because I’m not an alcoholic, not because I’m an atheist. I’m not angry, I’m more frustrated. And no, I don’t need your explanation as, per above, I have plenty of experience.
Best,
Anton.
March 2, 2013 at 7:19 pm
With respect, the reason I wrote ignorance is because of the language you used in your original post. I’d put money on you not having worked the program.
I actually agree about it being connected to govt. In the uk it isn’t and I (and quite a few other members, I think) hope it never will be. You basically get people who don’t want to be there and who use the connection with govt to drive a resentment.
Personally, I think it’s very important that we are only seen as one way to find recovery. There are other ways; other paradigms that work better for other people. No biggie. All I’d say to a prospective member is any way out is going to take a degree of openmindedness and sustained effort.
As for the higher power thing, i just understand that as a power greater than me. The collective knowledge in the rooms is greater than me. Human knowledge is greater than mine. Science is a power greater. Etc etc etc. it’s simple.
Anyhow, peace. Out.
March 3, 2013 at 11:22 pm
Then you’d lose your money. As I said in the post, I have more than 10 years direct experience with the Ala-Non family groups and even more years of indirect experience.
I’m glad to read that AA doesn’t enjoy government support in the UK. Maybe one day that’ll be true here. Until it is, though, my objections to such involvement stand.
While I agree with what you say of “only seen as one way,” in the US, AA tends to be respected as either the best way or only way. Granted, this isn’t entirely AA’s fault; it’s cultural as well, but AA seems to have no official objection to its cultural status.
I’d argue that there are only other ways. Believing that a “higher power” cures one of one’s alcoholism has zero evidence to support it, thus it doesn’t work. Perhaps socially sharing with other alcoholics does, but that has nothing to do with a higher power.
I agree with you on sustained effort. I have no idea what you mean here by openmindedness.
If all you’re going to say about a higher power is “I understand that as a power greater than me,” then what’s the point of the construct to begin with? If you’re going to define “higher power” as “collective knowledge in rooms,” then why not just say “collective knowledge in rooms”? There’s zero need to artificially insert meaning where there is none.
March 4, 2013 at 7:48 am
So you’ve worked the program with a sponsor? I don’t believe you. You can sit in meetings forever. That isn’t working the program. You can sit and watch Spanish TV every day. You might pick a few things but, without help you’ll be unlikely to be fluent.
I say open minded because every technique will ask you to challenge your own thinking.
That’s just my understanding of a power greater. To others it might be more supernatural (or less). It has to be a free choice. Forced belief doesn’t work anywhere. The founder members were both Christians but they actually committed heresy by opening it up like they did. What religion would say ‘believe whatever you want’? I know a guy who uses a London bus as his higher power. Ok, it’s crazy but it works for him and that’s all that matters.
March 4, 2013 at 8:19 am
Never said I worked with a sponsor. Said I was active in Ala-Non family groups for 10 years. I don’t care if you believe me. Now you’re pulling the Not-A-True-Scotsman fallacy. The only thing I didn’t do was get a sponsor. Everything else I did. I made amends. I practiced rigorous honesty in all my affairs. And so on.
I’m not sure how much we can discuss open mindedness as the concept is based on the assumption that my pre-Ala-Non thinking was closed, but since I’d been raised in the program before I practiced it myself, that was all my thinking. In fact, by that definition, my mind was completely closed, except in the opposite way you’re suggesting.
Okay, that’s your understanding, but even with your statement, you’re saying that there are multiple possibilities in understanding. This widens the definition of “higher power” so much as to render it meaningless. I’d argue that a more supernatural model does tend to be forced. Socially forced. While every group is different, and maybe this hasn’t been your experience, every group I’ve been involved with has definitely emphasized a supernatural nature to the higher-power concept.
But if someone uses a bus as his higher power, then the whole concept of the higher power is ridiculous. Can this person honestly say that he doesn’t drink due to the power of the London bus? If so, he’s insane because the London bus is a system of inanimate objects; it has no control, direct or indirect, over his drinking.
Except that it doesn’t work for him. What works for him is presuming responsibility of his drinking to somehow be in the hands of an external force. But that external force is, well, external. It has no bearing on his drinking whatsoever. What does is he. He chooses not to drink because he’s found value in not drinking. Why he chooses to assign his accomplishment to an external, ridiculous force, I imagine, is that it’s, for some stupid reason, taboo for us to not only take responsibility for our own actions, but also take credit for them as well.
The more dangerous undercurrent of your bus-worshipping pal is that if he finds such delusional thinking reasonable for such a mundane thing as the choice of whether to drink, imagine what other ridiculous concepts he might be willing to commit himself to for no other reason than surface-level social acceptability. I wonder what justifications he uses when he votes. What a Kit-Kat bar told him? How about how he treats his family? Does the post box have some say in that? Or does he limit his delusional thinking only to the bus::pint relationship?
March 23, 2013 at 3:10 am
I don’t see how having a sponsor helps the claim that AA is not a cult. I also grew up in AA (my parents were in the program), and I was solidly involved with Al-Anon for 5 years. I had a sponsor who I called daily, I went to 3 meetings a week, 2 conferences a year, worked the steps, sponsored others, all of it. I loved the program, I thought it was the only way to live my life, and I intended to stick with it for the rest of my life.
The sponsorship part was the most cult-like of the whole thing for me. My sponsor allowed me no privacy. She learned every intimate detail of my life and directed all of my decisions. In our area we have different “sponsorship lines” our line prided itself in being the most committed to the program, and almost everyone in my area was in it. We only used “pure” literature like the Big Book – none of that watered-down Al-Anon crap. We were required to wear skirts to all the conferences we went to, and we would leave each other little gifts on our pillows and line up in the order of the amount of time we had in the program. It was like a sorority or something. We also followed strict rules like no sex until marriage, no asking boys out on dates (wait until they ask you), and we were required to call our sponsor at the exact same time every day. If we missed or were late, we made amends. If that’s not a cult, I don’t know what is.
Even though I felt all of Al-Anon was ultimately harmful, I think the best part was just sitting in meetings and listening to people share. Having a sponsor and working the steps really screwed up my life until I got the confidence to quit and live my own life.
March 25, 2013 at 9:13 pm
Yeah, the sitting around chatting with people I’ve never had a problem with. It’s the “higher power” horseshit and government sponsorship that have troubled me.
March 23, 2013 at 12:56 pm
An arbitrary untrained unaccountable member of the general
public being given the role, responsibilities and authority of a
mental health care provider is beyond outrageous morally, medically,
psychologically economically the list goes on and on. This should
not be a radical idea in a SANE developed society with some
semblence of structure and morality regarding science, health care
and the law (as in rule of, it’s right up there with the opposible
thumb in seperating us from the animal kingdom.) Trained clinicians
are subject to professional and legal accountability while privacy
of patients is seriously protected. Training and certification is not a garauntee of competence or integrity but it must be a minimally
required litmus does this even need stating it’s so obvious and
basic and any assertion to the contrary is retarded irresponsible
indefensible illegal and totally unacceptable on every level in
a civilized society. I suggest anyone interested scroll back in the
comments (I’m sure my longwindedness has given Anton more
than a few headaches sorry buddy, you are nothing if not gracious)
to learn more about the facts and real history of 12 steps and
substance use and abuse. Even those opposed to 12 steps which
are incredibly fucked up corrupt and evil, use the same language
and operate within the same false constructs and goals of 12 steps
which is rooted in the fascist puritanical ideology and psychology
of the temperence movement and prohibition.
March 26, 2013 at 12:02 pm
Well said Deborah, well said indeed.
March 27, 2013 at 5:30 am
Thank you. I think this fucked up bullshit is affecting all of us
economically, socially, culturally, psychologically, philosophically,
legally and morally. It’s not just a ridiculous cult it’s a very
dangerous power and influence in this country on every level
health care, law enforcement, the courts, civil liberties truth,
justice and the most basic tenets of liberty and personal choice
privacy and freedom that are supposed to be inalienable rights and the foundation of America. If this sounds overly dramatic
upon examining the real effects 12 step lies rooted in a literally fascist and very abusive psychology and morality have every
time a police officer, judge, medical or mental health practitioner,
employer, spouse or partner family member friend enemy neighbor teacher social worker or stranger comes in contact with a situation that happens to involve in part to whatever degree
substance abuse the standard having now been lowered to mere use this affects everyone profoundly. Human psychology and
behavior is potentially affected but in no way close to defined
or understood in terms of substance use/abuse. The totally made up 12 step fraud teaches everyone that it is. It precludes a society
that has insight and compassion in regard to humanity and it
obscures scrutiny at the same time giving creditability to many
toxic abusive people while demonizing and discrediting many
who seek relief from emotional and situational pain with drugs
and alcohol. These gross moral factual and medical lies which
have been disproven with real clinical findings are seen as truth
and scientific fact by the entire society. This is medical fraud.
March 27, 2013 at 9:16 pm
Alcoholism: A disease of speculation
“In 1976, the writer Ivan Illich warned in the book, Limits to Medicine, that ‘the medical establishment has become a major threat to health’. At the time, he was dismissed as a maverick, but a quarter of a century later, even the medical establishment is prepared to admit that he may well be right. (Anthony Browne, April 14, 2002, the Observer)”
History and science have shown us that the existence of the disease of alcoholism is pure speculation. Just saying alcoholism is a disease, doesn’t make it true. Nevertheless, medical professionals and American culture enthusiastically embraced the disease concept and quickly applied it to every possible behavior from alcohol abuse to compulsive lecturing and nail biting. The disease concept was a panacea for many failing medical institutions and pharmaceutical companies, adding billions of dollars to the industry and leading to a prompt evolution of pop-psychology. Research has shown that alcoholism is a choice, not a disease, and stripping alcohol abusers of their choice, by applying the disease concept, is a threat to the health of the individual.
The disease concept oozes into every crevice of our society perpetuating harmful misinformation that hurts the very people it was intended to help. Remarkably, the assumptions of a few were accepted as fact by the medical profession, devoid of any scientific study or supporting evidence. And soon after, the disease concept was accepted by the general public. With this said, visiting the history of the disease concept gives us all a better understanding of how and why all of this happened.
The disease concept originated in the 1800s with a fellow by the name of Dr. Benjamin Rush. He believed those who drank too much alcohol were diseased and used the idea to promote his prohibitionist political platform. He also believed that dishonesty, political dissention and being of African-American descent were diseases. The “disease concept” was used throughout the late 1800s and early 1900s by prohibitionists and those involved in the Temperance Movement to further their political agenda. Prior to c.1891, the term alcoholic, referring to someone who drank too much alcohol, did not exist. Before that, alcohol was freely consumed, but drunkenness was not tolerated. Many sociologists contribute its non-existence to the very stigma that the disease concept removes. Drunkenness was not so much seen as the cause of deviant behavior-in particular crime and violence- as it was construed as a sign that an individual was willing to engage in such behavior.” (H.G. Levine, “The Good Creature of God and the Demon Rum,” in Alcohol and Disinhibitition, eds. R. Room and G. Collins.) During this period of time social ties and family played a much more influential role in an individual’s life. Therefore, deviant behaviors were undesirable and less likely to occur. It was not until industrialization began, when the importance of social and family ties diminished, that alcoholism became a problem. We now live in a society that encourages binge drinking as a social norm, but at the same time, we live in a society that discourages it.
The “recovery” community’s adoption of the disease concept began with an early AA member named Marty Mann. Her efforts, combined with a somewhat dubious scientist named E.M. Jellinek, began national acceptance of the disease concept. It was Jellinek’s self-proclaimed “scientific” study that opened the door for the medical community’s support. E.M. Jellinek’s study was funded by the efforts of Marty Mann and R. Brinkley Smithers. And, like so many other circumstances involving Jellinek and Mann, the study was bogus, if not outright fraudulent. The surveys Jellinek based his conclusions on were from a handpicked group of alcoholics. There were 158 questionnaires handed out and 60 of them were suspiciously not included. His conclusion was based on less than 100 handpicked alcoholics chosen by Marty Mann. Mann, of course, had a personal agenda to remove the stigma about the homeless and dirty alcoholic or “bowery drunk” in order to gain financial support from the wealthy. By removing the stigma, the problem becomes one of the general population, which would then include the wealthy. The first step was Jellinek publishing his findings in his book “The Disease Concept of Alcoholism,” which was based on selected subjects who fit the criteria supporting Mann’s preconceived conclusions. Later, E.M. Jellinek was asked by Yale University to refute his own findings. He complied. E.M. Jellinek’s The Disease Concept of Alcoholism did not stand up to scientific scrutiny.
Early in the 20th Century, the validity of the disease concept was often debated in medical circles. However, in 1956 the American Medical Association (AMA) proclaimed alcoholism an “illness.” Then, in 1966, the AMA proclaimed alcoholism a disease. The decision was embroiled in controversy. Historically, Marty Mann had her hand in much of this and manipulated information and doctors into agreeing with the disease concept. Marty Mann used her position as founder of the NCA (National Counsel for Alcoholism) to promote the disease concept through Jellinek and the founder of the NIAAA (National Institute for Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse) whose founder worked with Marty Mann during the institute’s early development. The founder of NIAAA, R. Brinkley Smithers, was a major contributor to, and promoter of, the disease concept. It was his money that actually funded Jellinek’s work at Yale. Smithers was also responsible for gaining insurance coverage for patients in treatment (hence the 28 day program.) Smithers was certainly not altruistic in his efforts. At that time he had already launched a treatment program for which he was lobbying for insurance payments. Acceptance by the medical community was the only way this could happen; alcoholism had to be a medical problem in order for medical insurance to pay for programs. We can see the influence of these “advances” everyday in treatment programs. Today, the treatment industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, with insurance paying the lion’s share of the costs. [Author’s note: In 2008, insurance companies paid for approximately 40% of those who underwent alcohol and drug treatment. By 2008 “the lion’s share” of the cost of drug and alcohol treatment was paid by private payers.]
While it can be argued that Smithers’ efforts played an important role, it was Jellinek’s study that was such a monumental turning point for the supporters of the disease concept. The disease model was, in part, developed and promulgated by Jellinek and various other partial participants, all with personal agendas. Today (2009), Jellinek’s “Stages of the Alcoholism” is still widely used to diagnose substance abuse.
But, these stages are based on a corrupt study that the author, himself, later refuted.
Jellinek not only published a fraudulent study, he defrauded members of his academic community, and apparently lied about his educational background to gain acceptance. Nonetheless, it was Jellinek’s “Stages of the Alcoholism” that led to diagnosing alcoholism as a disease and eventually to the medical acceptance of alcoholism as a disease. Astoundingly, the inception of the disease theory and treatment for substance abuse is based on fraud.
While many advocate for its benefits, the disease concept has proven to be far more damaging to substance user then anyone could have predicted. Therapists claim the disease concept helps the patient to understand the seriousness of [his/her] problems. But in reality, this idea backfired. The disease concept stripped the substance user of personal responsibility. A disease cannot be cured by force of will; therefore, adding the medical label transfers the responsibility from the user to caregivers. Inevitably, the users become unwilling victims, and just as inevitably they take on that role. In retrospect then, the disease concept has effectively increased alcoholism and drug use. Furthermore, its only benefit has been vast monetary reward for the professionals’ and governmental agencies responsible for providing recovery services. Specifically, it has not offered a solution for those attempting to stop abusive alcohol and drug use.
Baldwin Research Institute, Inc. interviewed 545 self-acknowledged substance users. Out of the 545, 454 of them had been to at least one conventional, disease-based treatment facility prior to the interview. Some had been to as many as 20 or more conventional, disease-based treatment facilities prior to the interview. Of the total 545 substance abusers, 542 never thought they had a disease. Rather, they thought they had made poor choices regarding their substance use. Three thought they had a disease, and it should be noted that those three were continuing to use substances. For those who did not think they had a disease, more than 400 of them falsely stated during conventional treatment that they believed they had a disease. The pressure to conform to the treatment rhetoric and the built-in excuse to relapse were the primary reasons given by treatment clients for saying they had a disease even when they believed wholeheartedly that it was not true. Many, perhaps most, substance users embrace any excuse to be insincere and abdicate responsibility for themselves, even if they know in their heart, it’s a lie.
In a recent Gallup poll, 90 percent of people surveyed believe that alcoholism is a disease. Most argue that because the American Medical Association (AMA) has proclaimed alcoholism a disease, the idea is without reproach. But, the fact is that the AMA made this determination in the absence of empirical evidence. After reviewing the history of the decision, it is reasonable to suggest that the AMA has been pursuing its own agenda in the face of evidence refuting the disease theory of alcoholism. While the AMA has made contributions in the mental health field, the AMA is not outside the box and many of its mental health contributions have been dubious, at best. The AMA is a part of the capitalist paradigm that is necessary for our society to function. The promulgation of the disease concept, in conjunction with AMA approval, has created a multi-billion dollar treatment industry that contributes billions to the health care industry. But, even with the AMA’s lofty status, mistakes in classifications can and has resulted in disastrous consequence.
While the AMA’s classifications for the most part are accurate, the organization is not without error. Since its inception the AMA has made classifications of varying “deviant” behaviors without scientific research to validate its claims. And, for whatever reason, the definition of a disease, as set forth by the AMA, is a malleable and all inclusive definition allowing for the inclusion of almost every behavior, deviant or otherwise. As a result, every unwanted behavior can be medicalized and medically treated, thereby providing professionals with more patients and more income.
With respect to alcoholism, it is beyond the grasp of logic for medical professionals to prescribe 12-step type meeting attendance as a remedy for an “incurable” medical ailment, not to mention a contradiction to the supposed nature of the problem. Medical professionals are admittedly incapable of helping drug addicts and alcoholics so they pass the buck to organizations outside of the medical community. But, because of recidivism rates and treatment failure, the buck is passed right back. Patients in search of help, pay, on average, over $18,000 (BRI 2003) to attend programs based on principals promulgated by 12 step groups. After an array of varying forms of “therapy” the patient is released with a prescription for lifelong attendance to AA or NA meetings.
In treatment and 12 step groups the individual is told that they can only live “one day at a time.” Additionally, they are told that they should never be fooled into believing they can be cured, and if they don’t attend meetings they will inevitably fall prey to their “disease doing push-ups in the parking lot.” The disease, as described by 12 steppers, is all powerful; it is a separate entity and without meetings it will destroy them. But, with some thought one realizes that these ideas are oxymoronic. To point out the obvious, if someone is “powerless” they would, by definition, not be able to control themselves, not even one day at a time.
The absurdities do not stop with 12 step groups; professionals contribute their own set of absurdities. For example, the AMA’s definition of alcoholism is: “Alcoholism is an illness characterized by preoccupation with alcohol and loss of control over its consumption, such as to lead usually to intoxication if drinking; by chronicity, by progression and by a tendency toward relapse. It is typically associated with physical disability and impaired emotional, occupational and/or social adjustments as a direct consequence of persistent excessive use.”
A natural assumption would be that the classification of a disease requires that characteristics and symptoms can be measured or observed. While the majority of diseases fit this requirement, substance abuse does not. The contradiction to these requirements lies within the defined nature of “alcoholism.” This supposed disease’s symptoms are only discovered after the consumption of alcohol. The health risks, dangerous behaviors and repercussions only materialize after the alcohol is consumed and not before. In comparison, the diagnosis for cancer comes after symptoms surface or cancerous cell are discovered. There are physically visible anomalies that can be measured. This measurement does not exist with alcoholics. The majority of time, the diagnoses of alcoholism is a guess, if indeed such a diagnosis actually exists. There is little question that a person exposed to enough carcinogens or radiation will eventually get cancer. With alcohol it is questionable if a person will become a problem drinker if exposed to alcohol. While cancer is a separate entity of its own within the body that first exists without the knowledge of its host, over consumption of alcohol, a substance consumed by choice, is necessary before a diagnosis can be made. That is to say that one must choose to create the condition before the condition can exist and subsequently be diagnosed.
Furthermore, consider the following taken from CNE Health. “From doctors and patients to drug companies and the media, there are relentless pressures to classify any condition as a disease. Richard Smith, the British Medical Journals editor, wrote: ‘Doctors, particularly some specialists, may welcome the boost to status, influence and income that comes when new territory is defined as medical. International pharmaceutical companies have an apparent interest in medicalising life’s problems. Dr. Iona Heath, head of ethics at the Royal College of General Practitioners, warns that there could also be clear downsides: ‘Alternative approaches – emphasizing the self-limiting or relatively benign natural history of a problem or the importance of personal coping strategies – are played down or ignored. The disease-mongers gnaw away at our self-confidence. Inappropriate medicalization carries the dangers of unnecessary labeling, poor treatment decisions, economic waste, as well as the costs that result when resources are diverted from treating or preventing more serious disease. At a deeper level, it may help to feed obsessions with health.”(CNE Health)
Then, there is the DSM IV criterion for diagnosing alcohol abuse. It also does not include physically measurable symptoms. It only requires social and/or legal problems. The DSM IV criterion for diagnosing alcohol dependence requires only one physical symptom that is a result of drinking too much, which is alcohol withdrawal. Following this logic, if a person smokes cigarettes they do not have a problem, but, when they stop smoking and go through nicotine withdrawal, they are then diseased. Yet, most treatment professionals seem oblivious to these blatant contradictions. (Keep in mind that cigarette smoking is not a disease according to DSM IV, although it causes far more health problems than does the use of alcohol and all other drugs combined.)
Sociologist and psychologist have long since been aware of the dangers of medicalising deviant and normal behaviors. Most encourage extreme caution when diagnosing mental illness because of the potential for damage in doing so. People, who are labeled, usually conform to the standards that labels indicate, whether the diagnosis is correct or not. It’s dangerous ground that is commonly tread upon by professionals today.
What’s even more disheartening is that a large percentage of diagnoses are not made by doctors, but by unqualified “drug counselors.” Treatment and AA are recommended by counselors as a way to “nip it in the bud.” But, these recommendations do far more damage to the individual than if they had just been left alone (which will be discussed later.) It should be pointed out that there is a major conflict of interest among drug counselors, a conflict of interest that cannot, and should not, be ignored. The majority of counselors are, themselves, members of 12 step groups and are believers in AA doctrine. These non-professional “professional” counselors have been manipulated into believing 12-step propaganda. And, like the AMA, their “professional” status allows counselors to convince patients that the patient needs help because they are sick.
And, if this 12 step nonsense is not harmful enough, misinformation abounds. Consider that attempts to prove a genetic link for alcohol and drug use, most studies only provide roundabout evidence of a predisposition, not a cause for alcoholism. With this said, we should point out that the predisposition can only prove a difference in bodily processes, not a difference in thinking. ”Knowing the sequence of individual genes doesn’t tell you anything about the complexities of what life is,” said Dr. Brian Goodwin, a theoretical biologist at Schumacher College in Devon, England, and a member of the Santa Fe Institute in New Mexico. Goodwin goes on to explain single gene mutations are not accountable for, and cannot explain, complex behaviors. Genes produce proteins they do not guide behaviors. The truth is a predisposition for substance abuse, if it does exist, has no bearing on subsequent behaviors. Chemical processes do not make a person an alcoholic. The person makes the conscience choice. Altered processing of alcohol in no way determines choice or behaviors. Obsessive drinking is not a reaction to bodily processes, but merely a choice. The amount consumed is determined by the individual, not by the body.
Nevertheless, news stories surface every year proclaiming discoveries of the genetic sources of emotional and behavioral problems while ignoring the mountains of evidence that refutes such preposterous assertions. In the study a genetic marker was found in 69 percent of 70 cadavers who had died from alcohol related deaths. But, the cadavers only represented 5 percent of the American population. According to the study 25 percent of the population has the “alcoholism gene marker” or genetic predisposition. The actual alcoholic population is 10 percent. It was then found that only 1/5 of the 25 percent that have the marker would develop alcoholic drinking that fit the parameters of those involved in the Blum-Noble study. Therefore, the results failed to demonstrate any increased vulnerability to alcoholism. In later articles it was revealed that the genetic marker appears to have little to do with becoming alcoholic. Not surprising, the AMA supported the faulty findings with limited investigation. The two members of the team who reported the false discovery of the gene were not without bias. Ernest Noble is the former director of the NIAAA and Blum, a Pharmacologist for Texas University, markets his own remedy for the malady in the form of supplements.
Subsequently, a team of three genetics researchers summarized the results of research on the Blum and Noble “alcoholism gene:” excluding results from studies Blum himself conducted, the frequency of the A1 allele at DRD2 is 0.18 in alcoholics, 0.18 in controls (random population and nonalcoholic), and 0.18 in severe alcoholics. Blum et al. reported allele frequencies for their alcoholics that are significantly different from the combined allele frequencies reported by a total of seven other groups of investigators for alcoholics (p < .001)." (J Gelernter, D Goldman, N Risch, The A1 allele at the D2 dopamine receptor gene and alcoholism: a reappraisal, JAMA, 1993;269:1676)
Looking at the situation objectively, if alcoholism is passed through genes, the abnormality must be relatively new. As stated previously, alcoholism did not exist in the early colonization of America. In fact, it did not exist until the late 1700's. Some would argue that the residents of the United States are largely immigrants and as a result the alcoholism gene was introduced later in history. Meaning, the "new" citizens are not of the same family tree as those of the 1700s. But, it’s important to point out, many cultures outside of the United States do not even know what alcoholism is; they do not have a word for it. People with different cultural backgrounds do not have different genetic make-ups. America's arrogance has led the population to believe that we are scientifically more advanced than other cultures; therefore, we know the truth and they do not. But this is far from true. In a country where we claim to "know the truth", the City of Los Angeles has more addicts than all of Europe. While professionals strive to obscure the stigma surrounding alcoholics, they are in essence, removing the social unacceptability of the act. By removing the stigma, they are encouraging this socially unacceptable behavior to continue.
Today, the AMA reports that while there is no "alcoholic personality," it does not seem unreasonable to believe that there may be "some combination of personality traits which are contributive to the development of alcoholism." They assert that emotional immaturity and strong dependency needs are commonly seen in alcoholics. While researchers work hard to prove the disease concept sound and verifiable, repeatedly studies refute the impact of genetic predispositions. Strangely, cultural groups that don't believe they can control their drinking have higher rates of alcoholism than those who believe they can.
The NIAAA (National Institute of Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse) found that 1 in 4 children in the US have been exposed to a family member who was/is an alcoholic before the age of 18. In 1974 an estimate was developed by Booz-Allen Hamilton based on the ratio of problem drinkers in the United States, and the average number of children a family has. This method was then applied by the Children of Alcoholics Foundation in 1984, and it is estimated that 6,600,000 adolescents were children of alcoholics (Keep in mind that there are 195,000,000 people in the United States, so even though 6,600,000 looks large, compared to the total population, it is not.) Another estimate, using the 1980 population census, puts the number of COA's (Children of Alcoholics) at 22,000,000. It has also been found that children exposed to the idea that they will inevitably become alcoholic drinkers should they decide to drink, and those who enter support groups, have lower self-esteem and increased feelings of depression, two characteristics of every substance abuser. Similar to treatment for substance abusers overall, children entering support groups as a result of familial problems are more likely to develop the same or similar problems themselves. Furthermore, it has been shown in numerous studies that COA's are only 6 percent more likely to become problem drinkers. Like the need for a war on drugs, the idea that COA's will inevitably become alcoholics, is pure propaganda. Teaching children they will face inevitable consequence upon the consumption of substances, for many, actually creates the problem.
It seems that self-proclaimed treatment professionals, blinded by intention, ignore the overwhelming evidence that contradicts the very principles they teach. True scientist and medical professionals know, beyond all reasonable doubt, the truth about alcoholism and substance use. The truth being: all substance use is a conscious choice. The rise of pop-psychology has clouded reasonable thought on the subject. Self-help groups, treatment, "therapy," counselors, and groupers are severely damaging the very people they whole-heartedly try to help. Twelve-step dogma and treatment misinformation contradicts empirical evidence and rational thought, in essence, stripping patients and members of their inborn abilities of spontaneous recovery.
While the NCADD (National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence), formally the NCA, claims to "fight the stigma and the disease of alcoholism and other drug addictions," its happy-go-lucky explanations of alcoholism and its nature are insultingly unsound. The NIAAA and the NCADD are two adamant supporters of the disease concept and 12 step therapies. But, as previously stated, they are not altruistic in their efforts. These two organizations fund most of the treatment research that goes on in the United States. And, like Marty Mann of old, they pick and choose studies that fit their agendas, or they manipulate and reinterpret the outcomes in their own favor. Thus, they receive funding to preserve themselves. This fact is applicable across the board for all certifying governmental organizations and institutions. In truth, whether intentional or not, it is pure genius. By filtering the facts, these organizations have "created" the necessity for themselves. They have created a public perception that they are needed by controlling and manipulating substance abuse information.
It has been estimated that 5.5 million Americans are in need of help for substance abuse issues. In 1988, 10.5 million U.S. residents could be diagnosed with alcohol dependency as set forth by the AMA and DSM IV, and 7.2 million more abused alcohol. Estimates among the general population indicate that 6-12% have substance abuse problems. The population of substance abusers has slowly increased since the 1930's coinciding with the spread of the disease theory and governmental interference in individual freedoms. What is interesting is that since the 1970's substance abuse has increased dramatically and proportionately with the popularity and prevalence of the drug treatment industry. The question is: if the multi-billion dollar war on drugs and the multi-billion dollar treatment industry have been growing, why does the drug problem continue to get worse?
Irrefutable empirical evidence has shown that organizations and institutions that promote, and adhere to, the disease concept, fail when trying to help people with substance use problems. Alcoholics Anonymous has successfully promoted itself as the only hope for alcohol abusers. The public perception is that Alcoholics Anonymous works, but reality is something quite different.
In 75 years Alcoholics Anonymous has become a part of our social structure. Its tenets have led the medical establishment and been used to diagnose patients with alcoholism while simultaneously giving birth to dozens of spin-off anonymous meetings. Its most outstanding accomplishment has been successfully promoting a fictitious disease, as fact, and to be absorbed into the very fabric of our society. But, while Alcoholics Anonymous has accomplished the unthinkable, its accomplishments have damaged the society. Although its intentions are synonymous with help, the organization's lies and manipulations have damaged society as a whole, costing taxpayers billions of dollars and costing families the lives of their loved ones.
In 1990, the Alcoholics Anonymous General Services Office or AA GSO, the governing organization overseeing all "autonomous" meetings, published an internal memo for the employees of its offices. It was an analysis of a survey period between 1977 and 1989. The results were in absolute contrast to the public perception of AA. "After just one month in the Fellowship, 81 percent of the new members have already dropped out. After three months, 90 percent have left, and a full 95 percent have disappeared inside one year!" (Kolenda, 2003, Golden Text Publishing Company) That means that in under a year, 95 percent of the people seeking help from Alcoholics Anonymous leave the program. While this only speaks for attendance, it has further implications. For the most part, those who study the efficacy of Alcoholics Anonymous do not include dropouts in their sobriety failure statistics, which is deceptive, if not outright dishonest. When studies include AA GSO dropout statistics, "…the total averages of sobriety for the total AA membership become 3.7 percent for one year [of sobriety], and 2.5 percent over five years." (Kolenda, 2003, Golden Text Publishing Company) It's important to understand that 95 percent of all substance abuse treatment centers in the United States are 12-step based programs. Thus, the failures of Alcoholics Anonymous are also the failures of treatment.
Repeated studies have shown that the average person, who could be diagnosed with a substance abuse problem, will discontinue use on their own 20 to 30 percent of the time. But, those who are exposed to AA and treatment and who are taught the disease concept have a drastically decreased chance of achieving sobriety. While treatment professionals are aware of program failure, governing organizations support and promote the adoption of 12-step tenets into treatment programs for substance abusers. Families pay tens of thousands of dollars to help their loved ones only to place them in programs that follow guidelines of a documented failed program. Any program based on a program that fails will inevitably fail. For most, 12-step has become synonymous with failure.
In contrast, programs that teach personal responsibility and choice are far more successful than programs that teach the disease theory. While conventional treatment methods result in a 3 percent success rate after five years, programs that do not teach the disease concept, and instead teach choice, have success rates of more than 60% percent after five and even 10 years (Baldwin Research Institute 2003).
In conclusion, after reviewing the available research from both sides of the debate, the belief in the disease of alcoholism (addiction), causes the disease. Organizations and institutions that promote the disease theory are, in many cases, doing irreparable harm to the individual and performing a disservice to the population as a whole. Geneticists are aware that a predisposition does not dictate subsequent behavior, and treatment professionals are aware that the programs they offer, fail. It is an outright injustice when faced with the facts. Stripping human beings of their ability to choose is damaging, whereas giving them back the power of their own volition is essential for recovery. Alcoholism is a choice, not a disease.
Alcohol Alert, National Institute of Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse, No. 43, April 1999 Rockville, MD, pgs. 8-9,41,42
Anthony Browne, "Why it's all in the Mind," Guardian Publishing, (observer.guardian.co.uk/), Sunday April 14, 2002 (*CNE Health Quote and AMA definition)
March 27, 2013 at 9:24 pm
Hi Deborah,
I don’t mind your posting entire articles, but it may not render well considering the number of comments on this post. If it looks wonky, please delete the comment (if you can) and re-post as a new comment, or if you like post elsewhere and I’ll link to it.
Thanks,
Anton.
March 28, 2013 at 1:07 am
Sorry Anton,
I don’t really know how to post link etc. You can delete it and I
know it’s a lot to read. I do wish we lived in a culture with a longer attention span and a willingness to spend more time and energy
learning and thinking. I just thought the technical science, facts and
history illustrated my point as to why this is such a big deal and
getting past the surface impressions of this issue even for those
who are very anti AA to an explanation and clearer sense of oh
my you know who how the fuck has this happened. I guess it’s popular and people like it even though it’s retarded which was your
initial take on this isn’t the real answer. So if you can delete it
(do I need to if so I will) and post a comment below this one (for
anyone reading this who’s so inclined) with a link. Does that work?
Did you read it and if so what did you think? Sorry again, I know
I can be overly intense but that’s got it’s place in the universe.
Thanks, take care,Deborah(e-mail me with any specific instructions)
March 28, 2013 at 1:09 am
Is it legible or is it a long, thin stream? If it’s legible, I don’t mind it.
March 28, 2013 at 1:36 am
It’s not streaming, it’s only a few paragraphs. When you get a
chance if you’re so inclined read it. I’d like to know what you think
and if you were at all suprised. You have more indepth experience
with 12 steps than I do (I never paid the sillyness much mind)
though the a-non groups aren’t as psychologically violent (as they
are the supposed victims and less vulnerable and likely to tolerate
being berated and abused) as the groups for the diseased dishonest
selfish sinners. That this is foisted on minors is horrible. Got caught with alcohol or pot you have a fatal disease and look what your
selfish ass did to your parents who are no doubt wonderful.
March 28, 2013 at 1:38 am
Sounds good. Yeah, I skimmed some, but I’m at work so can’t spend much time on it.
April 6, 2013 at 5:29 pm
Last night Bill Maher was calling for the authority and factual truth
of science to have the final if not the only say in the public understanding and policy decisions regarding climate change
(he coined this term as more accurate than global warming which
is of course real I’m inclined to agree based on my empirical observations but of course I defer to the men and women of science
with no financial motive informing their impartiality for the real data about this planet that appears to be dying.) This plea for rational
fact and truth applies to the massive case of medical fraud that
has been perpetrated upon the American public and our important
and powerful social institutions public and private. The public has
been presented bald faced made up lies about drugs and alcohol
and the real facts about usage patterns and their effects on human
psychology and behavior. This is a huge deal on many unseen
levels. Take the expensive and futile “war on drugs” alone. The
courts and law enforcement ruined lives and the deep philosophical
and civil rights issues alone must be recognized and addressed.
The lies and propaganda of 12 steps are what allow this societal
outrage and insanity. All of the organizations claims are self
reported and asserted with no scientific fact. These are not scientists
they are lying brainwashed bullying cult members. AA does not
help millions of people. That is a made up lie that is nothing
short of gross fraud and medical malpractice. Where is the outrage?