Why @nonstampNSC, @BridgetGaudette, @Zjemptv, @SecularWoman, & @MaionnaiseJane are better than you are

This all started a number of weeks ago and I’d intended to get a few screen grabs so I could show exactly how it all went down, but now that’d involve probably hours of skimming Twitter timelines which I’m not gonna fucking do.

Also, it may seem like a conflict of interest to mention Bridget Gaudette now that I write for her Freethoughtify.com, but the encounter I’ll mention happened long before that.

I’ve been a fan of NonStamp for a couple of years now. I’ve posted a number of his videos on here. One of my favorites is Context!! When I saw he was on Twitter, I was plenty excited as I figured I’d get first-look niftiness on his vids.

Then I saw it.

I happened to notice that NSC had started writing for Freethought Blogs. It’s no small secret that I’m not a giant fan of a few of their writers. I was disappointed. Even though I knew that NSC’s involvement was neither a reflection on him nor on them, I still kinda sank inside. I told him that my comment wasn’t an attack, but that I was (half kidding) sad to see him there.

At first, he got defensive. He said something to the effect of my jumping on the bandwagon of FtB hate, talking out of my ass, all that sort of stuff.

But!

In only a couple of exchanges, we clarified our positions and he apologized for his brash tone and kind words were shared.

No fuss. No muss. Just regular, ol’ cordial exchange. We started from a place of difficulty, but then were both willing to be reasonable and civil and it all worked out.

I first heard about Gaudette through A-News’ interview with her. Then I checked her out a bit on SecularWoman and Twitter. At some point, she made some comment about sexism in society. I wrote her on Facebook and asked her about that.

“Fuck off,” isn’t what she said. No, no. We also had a cordial back and forth in which she answered my questions.

I don’t remember how I discovered Zinnia Jones, Queen of Atheism. It was probably some randomly encountered YouTube video. I enjoyed her straight-forward, facts-only style. And, as with NonStamp, I found her on Twitter.

At some point, the discussion of the definition involved in transsexuality came up. While I know a thing or two about transsexuality, I’m no expert. i asked about definitions, what made one trans, what that meant, all kinds of stuff. Jones answered everything with patience and (literary) poise.

Through my acquaintance with Gaudette, I became aware of Secular Woman. I think she was working for/with them at the time. I generally find them more palatable than another oft blabbed-about female-driven skeptic site which shall remain nameless. Not always, but generally. Well, along with that above trans discussion, I bumped into Elsa Roberts of Secular Woman. We had some back and forth not so much about transsexuality, but of more general feminist topics.

Not only did Roberts answer my questions and respect my right to disagree with her, but she also invited me to continue the conversation with her directly. I’ve not done so as of yet only because of a lack of time to commit to it, but i will soon (likely in a couple of weeks).

Finally, Marisa Gallego appeared in that darn trans conversation and with her, not only did I not see eye-to-eye, but at times I downright called her on her shit, or at least what I considered her shit. I feel like I was respectful in doing so, but that doesn’t change the action taken. Despite that, we maintained politeness throughout and with her help, I’ve learned a thing or two about her positions.

I have to say that with each of the above-referenced conversations, not only did I not expect anything going into them, but based on my conversation with my Best Friend and Biggest Fan (BFaBF) Ophelia Benson, I actually assumed that all conversations would end up in some kind of vicious, name-calling flame war. I’m so glad, then, that my initial fears were completely debunked and that some mutual insight developed.

If only it could be this way every time.

#LeeMoore of @realanews chats with @TIME about the great schism & quotes @rickygervais!

Preach it, brother Rick!

You can read Moore’s post here. While I absolutely support Moore’s efforts in the cessation of infighting, I commented on his post that I’m skeptical of its short-term success. My specific comment was about how Center for Inquiry would likely have to disavow itself of some actions and individuals, as well as some of its individuals possibly needing to make some apologies. I’m not even saying I want this; I don’t care what CfI does, but the public at large might.

And then there’s those wacky kids over at Freethought Blogs. You know the ones. My best friend and biggest fan Ophelia Benson, who called Moore’s and Brian Allen’s initial steps to this effort “cute,” but who otherwise expressed no interest. Greta Cristina, who seems to live for being outraged. PZ Myers who’s not only claimed that there’s no problem, but who’s called those who disagree with him assholes. People like these seem to have no interest in any resolution and seem to believe that not only is there nothing to be resolved, but also that they’re innocent of any kind of wrongdoing or ill-speaking.

But notice I said “short-term” success. I foresee no reconciliation of any kind on any issue whatsoever. For now. But, as Blockbuster Video was once the absolute dominant force in home-video rental only to be left licking the dust of on-line outfits like Netflix, so too, even the above Freethought Bloggers’ greatest pinnacles of oft-minion-driven popularity will perish in death knells of quiet, moaning, self-satisfied, histrionic, finger-pointing irrelevance.

What wil happen is this. As atheism continues to gain footholds in mainstream, popular culture, as currently anonymous atheists become more willing to be open and active in the movement, the currently perceived “importance” of FtB and their ilk will gently siphon off. Those who don’t work for the community’s greater good will all be unceremoniously brushed aside. It’s happened in every social movement. It’ll happen in this one.

So it’s with a grin that I watch Moore’s efforts, both in pride of him and bemusement of his detractors, for whether Moore magically manages to rally all together under his banner of peace or gives up, cries “fuck it,” and retreats, one thing remains absolutely 100% true: reason will always prevail.

Behold, @Rocko2466′s very amusing “Dramatic Reading – Episode 5: Invasion of the Photo Snatchers”!

Though I consider everything on this issue settled, I thought this was pretty funny. I love the motion graphics, sound FX, and you can’t beat the British (Australian?) accent.

In case anyone’s wondering, no, I did not request it. Rocko sort of just announced out of the blue that he’d make it and I honestly thought he was kidding. More specifically, what I thought he was kidding about was simply reading the text with friends, not making a video.

But make one he did and I hope he does more.

#LeeMoore of @realanews emphasizes call for peace; @weareatheism & @NationalAtheist join in

I’ve heard tell that there are some who are still against this, and that’s fine; maybe they’ll change their minds soon. Until then, Moore is building a coalition and I’m glad to see it.

As I said here, now that I’ve called a truce with Ophelia Benson (as I believe she has with me), I encourage her to accept Moore’s invitation to go on A-News for a discussion. I understand her hesitation in doing so, but for my part, should I join as well, I promise to behave.

If she chooses not to join, that’s obviously okay too. I trust that the movement will figure out the current skirmish sooner or later.

Of Butterflies and Wheels and Ants on Hills

For anyone who gives even two passing shits on what’s been going on, you already know this, but for anyone else, Ophelia Benson and I have been in a bit of a conflict. I won’t rehash the details. I’m sure you can find plenty on her blog both from her and her commenters.

Shortly after the conflict erupted, however, A-News co-founder Lee Moore made an appeal to all of us in-fighters to stop infighting. Moore admitted to contributing to the in-fighting and made a commitment to lay down arms and move on. In some of those discussions, others echoed his sentiments, including some individuals who expressed their concerns that being on the outside of the activism part of the community and witnessing all the bullshit, they felt no compulsion to become involved. This is obviously bad news for the long-term goals of the movement as, without capable leaders and troops, we’ll never get anywhere.

Thinking about all this, I realized, of course, that I’d made my own contribution and that I should thus take responsibility for it and move on as well. In one of the discussions Moore had, Benson confronted me. I had no problem with that except that the thread on which she chose to do so was all about Moore’s plea that we get along, so I wasn’t about to engage in a flame war with her on that thread. I told her that if she wanted to talk, she should do so directly.

She did.

I’m not posting that here, but I am posting my response.

Hi Ophelia,

Thanks for writing. I know you didn’t have to and I appreciate that you did. I apologize for the length, but I wanted to address everything you said.

To answer your question, yes, upon reflection, including comments from those close to me, I realized that there was a certain pettiness to the video I made.

That’s a good question, why I haven’t said as much to you or others. Probably the most basic answer, which you may not like, is just as you owe me nothing, I owe you nothing.

More specifically, though, I detest flame wars and I assumed that one would erupt if I were to interact directly. I’m glad to say that so far here on Fb, this hasn’t been the case.

You might ask, then, why did I make the video in the first place, and the answer, roughly, is that I’d been sick of the “misogyny” debate, had held my tongue, but finally felt compelled to say something about it.

“Sniping” is a subjective word. I’ve made comments, some mocking ones, but comments nonetheless. I’ve mocked a lot of people. And from what I’ve seen, you’re hardly innocent in this regard.

To say I “got in [your] face” is inaccurate. Firstly because we’ve never shared the same physical space. Secondly, you’ve chosen to be a public figure on multiple public forums, have been willing, and some might say gleeful, to comment on or interact with those with whom you strongly disagree. To then wonder why someone might take advantage of the position you’ve chosen for yourself and do the same with you is somewhat baffling.

Your “politeness” or the lack thereof wasn’t the point. The point was to criticize your statements. Why you would treat a stranger who very well might become a supporter with such rude condescension I don’t know. Maybe you enjoy it. Maybe it was to show off in front of your followers. But I was serious when I said I would not support you.

With that said, I’ve also been serious when I’ve told people that I intend to bury the hatchet with you and others. From now on, I won’t pursue any in-fighting arguments on “misogyny” and the like. What you choose to do in response is obviously up to you, but that’s my commitment.

Thank you again for writing and if we correspond again, I welcome it. If not, then I wish you the very best.

Sincerely,

Anton.

Regardless of how or if she chooses to respond, I consider myself in a truce with her. Now on to more worthwhile pursuits, like more debates with apologists!