Round #4 with Steve!

His text and my reply:

Hey Steve,

>You sadly judge God, but are unaware that you stand to be judged.

Let’s slow this down a second. I have no evidence that there is a god, so can’t judge that which doesn’t exist. Replace the word “god” with the expression “Santa Claus” and you’ll see what I mean.

“You sadly judge Santa Claus…”

See how ridiculous that sounds? That’s because there’s no reason to believe that Santa Claus exists either. Now, I do judge this being you and your book describe. And I make no apologies for that. From what I’ve read and heard of the Bible, well, I think Richard Dawkins says it best:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

Why you, Steven, or anyone else would want to follow such a bieng, I’ll never understand. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

>You are obviously aware of sin, but ignore the Creator.

I’m aware of the idea of sin, yes, but I think it’s bullshit. The fact is, just aobut everything a human can do, especially those things which are biological imperatives, are considered sins. That makes no sense. Why would a god create us with biological imperatives that He then punishes?

And ignoring the Creator assumes that there is one. I have yet to hear any compelling reason or evidence to believe so. Once I do, I’ll happily convert.

>It is He Who made you, and it is He Who has to save you.

Those are both assumptions on your part. Where’s your evidence?

>All sin is punishable by eternal damnation.

I’ve never understood this. How is it that all sin, the smallest to the most grievous, is all punishable by the same thing? Does that honestly sound reasonable to you? I mean, what if our society worked that way? You shoplift a candy bar, you get tortured forever. You murder someone, you get tortured forever. Where’s the justice in that?

>This is why Jesus Christ came. He took upon Himself this wrath of God for His people.

Why did God feel wrath for his Creation?

>That is what the death on the cross is about.

I don’t understand.

>All mankind is under the wrath of God because of sin.

I don’t understand this either.

>All mankind has sinned.

How do you know?

>A person has to be brought into the covenant of grace and removed from being under the law to be saved.

I’m sorry, Steve. I don’t understand this either.

>Surely you have some understanding of your own sinfulness don’t you?

You’re assuming that I find validity in the concept. I don’t.

>You may also notice that verse 23 testifies that all have sinned.

How do you know this to be true? Someone just made it up!

>That means me, and that means you. Basically, the whole human race. John Piper (if I remember right) was pointing out verse 26 in that God does justly punish all sin. All sin requires punishnment.

Why is that and how do you know that?

>Here in verse 26, the testimony is that God is just in punishing for sins, but at the same time can account a person righteous who is in Christ.

Why is God just in punishing? Why doesn’t He just forgive?

>This is why Christ came. He came to save His people from their sins. He took upon Himself the punishment for the sins of His people and it is like an exchange. His life for ours. The death on the cross is a cursed death.

Why is any of this necessary. If God is all-powerful, why didn’t He simply not allow sin to exist or simply forgive? Why the arrangement with Christ?

>The law of God testifies of this. This is the amazing love of God, that He would send His blessed Son, Who is Holy and without blemish and undefiled, to lay down His life for filthy sinners and exchange His righteousness on our account.

But why do any of this? Why is it necessary to sacrifice anyone, let alone God’s own son?

>He has satisfied the requirements of the law taking on the wrath of God upon Himself and suffering the punishment we deserve.

But God created the law, so why not just change it or do away with it? I don’t understand why any of this is necessary.

>This is the love of God. What man do you know that would willingly die for another?

I honestly don’t know.

>It is scarce and not common. What man do you know that would die for a rotton criminal guilty of their crime and worthy of death?

That’s a lot of assumption. A criminal is simply someone who broke the law, but there is such a thing as an unjust law. I can think of few criminals whom I believe to be truly worthy of death.

>This is what it is like in God’s sight.

How do you know??

>This is not by the will of man to believe this, it takes a miraculous act from God to impute this righteousness of Christ and giving the gift of salvation through faith.

I’m sorry. You lost me there. What’s the deal with faith?

>Call upon God for mercy.

Why should I when there’s no reason to believe any of this?

>A person who is not in Christ has the wrath of God abiding upon them already, and is subject to eternal damnation.

How do you know?

>Cry out to God for mercy! Ask for forgiveness!

Why should I?!

You’ve sent me a couple videos. Here’s one you might enjoy. If the link doesn’t work, simply google “kissing hank’s ass.”

Take care Steve!

One Response to “Round #4 with Steve!”

  1. This made for an interesting morning read..thanks Anton.

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