Ryan’s “proof”

is as follows.

Hey Ryan,

Okay, here we go.

>When it comes to some solid proof, here’s one to put in mind. In the bible it says that man will be born in sin because of Adam and Eve eating the fruit. It seems like an incredible event.

Let me stop you right there. We have no evidence at all that that happened. In fact, it’s well documented that the Judeo-Christian creation story is derived from earlier creation myths of the time and area. Since the creation story has as much validity to it as a folk tale, there’s no reason to use it as a basis for anything, let alone morality.

But let’s pretend that the story has validity. All humans should not be “born in sin” based on something their ancestors did. That would be like me being punished for my great-great grandparents owning slaves (which they didn’t, by the way). If our American system of justice recognizes this point, surely an all-powerful, all-knowing deity recognizes this point. Furthermore, it’s ridiculous for an all-knowing deity to punish people for something he knew they would do. And, given that sin’s and Satan’s supposed existence is a direct result of god’s actions, god is more to blame for the results than the non-omniscient, non-omnipotent humans.

>They then continued having children who have sinned including me and you (they are all our ancestory.)

There’s no evidence for that either. In fact, it’s well-documented at this point that homo sapiens derived from proto-humans in Africa, not in the MIddle East.

>Now for some reason when we have a chance to do a good thing it feels bad, and when we have a chance to do a bad thing it feels good. And when we have a situation where we could choose good over bad, either to lie or not to lie, we choose what is easiest to us, because it is in our sin born nature.

Speak for yourself. I don’t have that struggle.

>Even if we don’t feel like doing a bad thing we do it anyway, even if we think of the consequences.

Again, speak for yourself. I don’t do that.

>I say that there yeilds a valid point for a superior being like God.

I don’t understand your logic. It seems like what you’re saying is because humans often do bad things that’s because they want to. They want to because of this ill-defined term “sin.” They have “sin” because of an unsubstantiated story. The story is true because it’s in the Bible, a book chalk full of unsubstantiated and baseless claims. I don’t remember the name for this fallacy, but basically it’s that the observed effect is not necessarily derived from the proposed cause. It’s the reversal of a non-sequitur.

And more:

Hi Ryan,

>I have to back my information up with the word of God (bible.) That is why I used that example.

You can back up your claims with anything you choose. If you choose a source that is not independently verifiable, I will question it.

>But if you look at your life and you do not see sin, which you know the definition for since I ill-defined it, you are living in deception.

I honestly don’t know what sin is. I’ve heard so many definitions, I can’t keep it straight. Tell me what you think it is. Saying that sin exists is an assumption. It cannot be independently verified.

>The bible says any man that says he is not living in sin is a liar.

The Bible also says you should stone children if they talk back. It also says that witches should be killed. It also says that
homosexuals should be killed. And it says slavery is okay. And it says that you can’t beat your slaves so hard that they die within the same day as the beating. Do you believe all this as well?

One Response to “Ryan’s “proof””

  1. […] keys, prayed, then found them, therefore, every claim religion makes is absolutely true.” Or, “When I pray, I feel good, therefore every claim religion makes is absolutely true.” Or, “My loved one got really sick, then, with lots of help from modern medical science, my […]

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