Thank you, #RandyBridgeman, for your response to #ToriParker’s de-conversion story!

Following is Randy’s response.

“Poor girl. Never was exposed to the truth. How sad. The Holy Bible is truth because the One who influenced the minds of men when it was being penned is the epitome,personnification & embodiment of Truth. Because a person does not believe in GOD doesn’t make Him, yes Him, go away. Doesn’t change His plans, doesn’t upset Him one iota. GOD is sovereign and does what He wishes whether our puny human minds comprehend, accept, hate or disavow it. You can shake your little fist at the Almighty GOD and if He so desired, He could blow on you and you will be no more. Can the clay tell the Potter what to do or question how He’s making something? I suggest you obtain a Bible, ask the One whom you hate to open your spiritual eyes before reading. Ask Him too to save your soul from eternal damnation (that’s right, His perogative again) and to lead you to a good Bible-believing, teaching and practicing church where you reside. Then begin living out your faith daily. In other words, ,bitterness, disappointment and unbelief in His existence. Break away from Satan’s fiendish grip. He likes to confuse ,oppress and kill the gullible. I’m praying for your soul Ms. Parker, praying that your soul will escape everlasting punishment. You can choose to hate my guts; doesn’t matter. If I’m able to pray somebody into the Kingdom of GOD, it will be YOU!!!!! Goodbye and may the Lord Jesus Christ save you from Hellfire. I’m out.”

And now for mine:

“Poor girl…and you will be no more.”

I won’t comment on every last thing in that chunk as it would take a long time, but one thing I will say is that most of it is either an undemonstrated premise or based on an undemonstrated premise. I’ll tackle only the first bit.

“The Holy bible is truth becuase the One who influenced the minds of men when it was being penned is the epitome,personnification & embodiment of Truth.”

One meaning “God” has never been objectively verified. The only “proof” I’ve ever heard of His existence has been based on logical fallacies or emotional appeals. That’s it. If any theists have any actual evidence, please feel free to drop it on me.

“…influenced the minds of men…”

How do you know this, Randy? How the fuck do you know that a god “influenced” the minds of men? How do you know that the god who did so in the Bible did not also do so in the Torah or Qu’Ran? How do you know that what you consider “influenced” actually was, especially considering that there are canonical Gospels, non-canonical Gospels, and apocryphal books? One of the reasons that the canon is what it is now is due to the fact that committees sat around and voted. That’s not counting kings and emperors. And remember that the Bible has only recently in the last couple of centuries arrived in a form considered by most to be standard. Does God influence every king or emperor? Did God only influence the committee members who voted “yes” on a particular book’s inclusion? Is God troubled by the differences between “official” versions of the Bible such as the Protestant and Catholic?

The point is the assertion that God influenced the writing of the Bible, that assertion alone, simply doesn’t hold up.

“Can the clay tell the Potter what to do or question how He’s making something?”

I’ve always found false analogies like this to be such fucking horseshit. Clay can be demonstrated. So can a potter. And the potter’s wheel. And the kiln. Clay’s also non-sentient. I think a better analogy might be a monkey in a zoo being handled by the zookeeper. But the zookeeper is also demonstrable. Until the “Potter” can be demonstrated, and considering that we have innate critical thinking abilities, it seems not only the “clay”‘s right, but absolute obligation to question any claim made of the “Potter.”

“I suggest you obtain a Bible…I’m out.”

Prove the One. Prove “spiritual.” Prove the “opening of eyes.” Prove the “soul.” Prove eternal damnation. Prove “Satan.” Prove what he thinks, feels, and does. Prove that he can do so in a universe created and controlled by an omnipotent god. Prove the “Kingdom of God.” Prove Jesus Christ. Prove the justice of “everlasting punishment” and “hellfire” simply for asking for evidence of undemonstrated claims.

You won’t because you can’t.

6 Responses to “Thank you, #RandyBridgeman, for your response to #ToriParker’s de-conversion story!”

  1. Christ's child. Says:

    Pity you. All the ranting and raving get you mowhere. You need to ask the Almighty to remove the spiritual scales from your eyes so He can reveal the truth to you, And another thing, I’m assuming you’re an adult; why the foul language then? Carry yourself with dignity and class befitting a human being. Don’t descend to the gutter with that filth. Of course you know better. Perhaps something which I wrote struck you because it is the truth? You can’t fight GOD so cease trying. He’s going to do what He wants to do whether or not you like it.

    Here are some atheist jokes for you:

    God is sitting in Heaven when a scientist says to Him, ‘Lord, we don’t need you anymore. Science has finally figured out a way to create life out of nothing. In other words, we can now do what you did in the ‘beginning’.’

    ‘Oh, is that so? Tell me….’ replies God.

    ‘Well’, says the scientist, ‘we can take dirt and form it into the likeness of you and breathe life into it, thus creating man.’

    ‘Well, that’s interesting. Show Me. ‘

    So the scientist bends down to the earth and starts to mold the soil.

    ‘Oh no, no, no…’ interrupts God,

    (I love this)

    ‘Get your own dirt.’ LOL!

    —————————————————————————————-

    An atheist was taking a walk through the woods, admiring all that evolution had created.

    “What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What beautiful animals!”, he said to himself. As he was walking along the river, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. When he turned to see what the casue was, he saw a 7-foot grizzly charging right towards him. He ran as fast as he could. He looked over his shoulder and saw that the bear was closing, He ran even faster, crying in fear. He looked over his shoulder again, and the bear was even closer. His heart was pounding and he tried to run even faster. He tripped and fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up, but saw the bear right on top of him, reaching for him with his left paw and raising his right paw to strike him.

    At that moment, the Atheist cried out “Oh my God!….” Time stopped. The bear froze. The forest was silent. Even the river stopped moving.

    As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky, “You deny my existence for all of these years; teach others I don”t exist; and even credit creation to a cosmic . Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?”

    The atheist looked directly into the light “It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask You to treat me as Christian now, but perhaps could you make the bear a Christian?” “Very well,” said the voice.

    The light went out. The river ran again. And the sounds of the forest resumed.

    And then the bear dropped his right paw ….. brought both paws together…bowed his head and spoke: “Lord, for this food which I am about to receive, I am truly thankful.”

    Atheists are afraid of the truth. May the Lord have mercy on your sin-racked soul. Bye.

    • Anton A. Hill Says:

      Hey Randy (assuming this is Randy again),

      Thanks for dropping by again. Here’s my response…

      > Pity you. All the ranting and raving get you mowhere. You need to ask the Almighty to remove the spiritual scales from your eyes so He can reveal the truth to you,

      In case you haven’t noticed, the ranting and raving has predominantly been about how the religious attempt to shove their bullshit down everyone’s throats through legislation. And in case you didn’t notice, it’s not working. New York recently passed legislation permitting gays to marry. Scream Leviticus 18:22 (or 20:13) all you want, but it is, as demonstrated, a losing battle.

      Now, if you’re considering my “ranting” as getting nowhere with the devoutly religious, I’d have to agree with you. But that isn’t necessarily my goal. My goal is to add a voice to the rational community, and if while doing so I catch a few fence-sitters along the way, all the better.

      But let’s get back to your undemonstrated premises. You claim there is an Almighty, that there are “spiritual scales” on my eyes, that they need to be removed, and that He can reveal the “truth.” In case you missed it last time, Randy, I was a Christian. Yes I was. I believed in God, prayer, and a bunch of other made-up crap. If you don’t believe me, or you feel the need to accuse me of not being a “true” Christian, fine, go ahead. Just define exactly and specifically what a “true” Christian is and what I did wrong in my pursuits of “true” Christianity for I did pray and speak to God with all sincerity. Contrary to what the religious always claim of me, I did not have a “hard heart.” I truly and sincerely believed. And yet in answer to all my pleading and questioning of whatever of Christianity that I didn’t understand, I heard nothing. Zilch. Not one word from God. Not in any sense. I never heard Him speak to me, nor show me signs of any kind ever.

      Now let’s consider what you call “truth.” My understanding is that what you call “truth” amounts to the following:

      1. There is a God.
      2. God had a Son.
      3. The Son, a man-god, said a lot of great stuff, not the least of which was to believe in Him and everything He says and this belief will lead the believer to eternal life in Heaven with God and the Son.
      4. To prove his point, Son chose not to use any divine power, let himself be judged and executed, then, three days after His death, rose from the dead to prove to everyone that they could do the same if they believed in Him.
      5. But if anyone didn’t believe in Him, or even dared to question anything that either He allegedly ever said or anything anyone else said about Him, the questioner would, upon death, go straight to Hell, where he would be punished eternally for having doubted in the first place.

      If I have any of the above wrong, please correct me. If not, looks like I’m aware of what you claim to be the “truth.” Only problem is, with no evidence at all to support any of the above, I don’t see why I should believe it. Moreover, the above makes assumptions (which I didn’t list) which would also have to be independently demonstrated, namely the existence of the soul and of sin. Yes, I’ve had sin loosely defined for me, but I have not encountered evidence that it actually exists or that any religious’ interpretation of it is valid. In fact, most of the answers the religious have offered in regards to my questions on sin have essentially amounted to circular reasoning or some other fallacy (bad things happen: sin causes them).

      >And another thing, I’m assuming you’re an adult; why the foul language then? Carry yourself with dignity and class befitting a human being. Don’t descend to the gutter with that filth. Of course you know better.

      If your assertion is that swearing can be of lower class, I agree, but if your assertion is that human being adults with dignity and class never swear, then I disagree and cite individuals such as presidents, monarchs, academics, scientists, and my favorite, stand-up comics who have all earned the respect of their peers and the public. And who all swear. Many publicly. You may not agree with every last word they say or of every stance they hold, but the idea that swearing by itself is undignified is clearly not true.

      Furthermore, you are of course more than welcome to have the opinion that my swearing is de classe, but the great thing about the US specifically and the internet in general is that I’m free to say exactly what I like without having to concern myself with your opinion.

      >Perhaps something which I wrote struck you because it is the truth?

      You can think that all you want. By all means. Go ahead. But telling yourself that won’t make your undemonstrated premises any more true. The fact remains that you have no evidence whatsoever that any of the claims that you’ve made are true. You’ll rely on logical fallacies (such as lots of people believe what you believe, therefore it must be true), emotional appeals (such as you feel it in your heart that you speak the truth, therefore it must be true), but you will have not one shred of objectively verifiable evidence of your claims. Not one. Moreover, any evidence that you do claim, such as eyewitness accounts or the secular confirmation of people, places, and events from your holy book, also applies to every other religious system in the world. Therefore, any conclusions you draw about your own faith will also apply to every other. And yet you don’t believe them to be the truth. Why not? Because they’re not.

      >You can’t fight GOD so cease trying.

      Have you actually read this site, or do you simply see the word “atheist” and throw a sanctmonious fit? I ask because if you knew much about us rationalists, then you’d understand that in order for us to believe that we’re fighting something, we have to believe in that something we endeavor to fight.

      I’m not trying of fight God just like I’m not trying to fight Zeus, Thor, Ra, or Quetzalcoatl. Presumably, an omnipotent being would be impossible to fight. What I’m fighting is delusional people influencing public policy based on made-up bullshit.

      >He’s going to do what He wants to do whether or not you like it.

      I completely agree with you. As is to be expected from an omnipotent being.

      > Here are some atheist jokes for you:

      You may be surprised to read that I found those jokes quite funny. My only issue with them is they’re either based on undemonstrated premises, false premises, logical fallacies, emotional appeals, or some combination thereof.

      Allow me to demonstrate.

      > God is sitting in Heaven when a scientist says to Him, ‘Lord, we don’t need you anymore. Science has finally figured out a way to create life out of nothing. In other words, we can now do what you did in the ‘beginning’.’

      This is a blatant misrepresentation of science, and therefore dishonest. The only reason it isn’t an outright lie is that I can’t prove the intention of the speaker, joke writer, or you. But a misrepresentation it remains. Science doesn’t claim to create life out of “nothing.” All current theories of abiogenesis, or life from non-living matter, depend on certain chemicals, environments, and chemical processes being present. This is not “from nothing.” Moreover, science has demonstrated the theoretical conditions of an early Earth in the lab. Check out the Miller-Urey Experiment. And please note that I’m not claiming that this is absolute proof of abiogenesis. It is absolute proof of the possibility which alone proves the absolute claim of creation of life to be unnecessary (and, therefore, not absolute).

      > An atheist was taking a walk through the woods, admiring all that evolution had created.

      This isn’t as much of a blatant misrepresentation, but it’s leaning towards one. No one has ever claimed the evolution “created” anything. The process of evolution by natural selection describes lifeforms adapting to their environments over time. This isn’t “creation” nor does it claim to be.

      > At that moment, the Atheist cried out “Oh my God!….” Time stopped. The bear froze. The forest was silent. Even the river stopped moving.

      I realize the tone of the joke is a joke, but this is a bit of a silly suggestion. It’s true that I use expressions such as “Oh God.” The reason I do so is the same reason I call myself “me.” I was raised in a culture in which that was the common practice and it ultimately takes more effort than it’s worth to call myself something other than “me.”

      > As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky, “You deny my existence for all of these years; teach others I don”t exist; and even credit creation to a cosmic . Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?”

      I’ve never understood the Christian notion of God. We are told that God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent, and yet it’s abundantly demonstrable that both in the holy books and in the words of believers who describe Him that He’s very little more than a mean, impudent child. Certainly, a child might trouble himself over whether someone follows or believes in him, but would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God truly feel that way? And if so, how omniscient and omnibenevolent can anyone truly claim Him to be? Furthermore, wouldn’t an omniscient God understand how an atheist might feel given the lack of evidence supporting God’s existence and yet the abundance of evidence supporting scientific explanations of previously religiously dominated ideas such as the origins of the universe and of species?

      > And then the bear dropped his right paw ….. brought both paws together…bowed his head and spoke: “Lord, for this food which I am about to receive, I am truly thankful.”

      Is this joke suggesting then, that this omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God is such a petty asshole that He violates free will enough to make the bear sentient and Christian in order to eat the atheist in order to prove an ultimately fatal point to the atheist?

      Yes, it’s funny, but it’s ultimately very disturbing. If you truly find wisdom or validity in the joke’s viewpoint, I have to question your own sense of compassion. I would never want a believer to be slaughtered by a bear. And yet I frequently hear believers tell me that they’ll be laughing their heads off when they’re in Heaven witnessing me roasting in hell. How kind and compassionate can one claim to be if this truly is one’s desire? I would never want to know that anyone, even my worst enemy, were being eternally punished. I couldn’t possibly enjoy eternal paradise knowing, especially, that my non-believing loved ones were being punished eternally. And yet the religious so frequently make this claim.

      Do you, Randy, find validity in the notion of a punishing God? And if so, why? Does it trouble you at all the notion that God punishes those whom He knows will violate His commandments? That’s the thing about the doctrine of omniscience that confuses me. If God is omniscient, knows everything, wouldn’t He know all that humans would do for their entire lives millions of years before they even exist? And if so, how can He justify punishing them for things He knows they’re going to do? And in fact, how does that doctrine work with free will? How can I, a feeble human, truly have free will, if every last thought, feeling, and action I will ever make is already known to God? How is that not predetermination?

      > Atheists are afraid of the truth. May the Lord have mercy on your sin-racked soul. Bye.

      How do you know that I’m afraid? To claim so is to claim to know my thoughts and feelings. But how can you know them without speaking to me? You could say that you read them on this site, but then I’d challenge you to cite specifically where I ever admitted I was afraid.

      What reason would I have to be afraid of the “truth” as you claim it? As far as I understand it, all I have to do is make a sincere deathbed confession and I’m home free. Am I incorrect in that assessment? I’ve had believers tell me that I could slaughter millions of people in cold blood, rape a thousand women, abuse a thousand children, and as long as I sincerely ask for Jesus’ forgiveness, I’m welcome in the kingdom of Heaven. So what, truly is stopping me from committing every last evil act conceivable and simply repent right before it’s too late?

      Until next time, Randy.

      Anton.

  2. Randy Bridgeman Says:

    It would be folly to commit all those crimes, then wait until you’re about to die to confess. Why? Because no one knows beyond a shadow of a doubt when he/she will leave this earth. In addition, one may go suddenly, therefore not have time to repent. Who in their right mind would take that chance? People make the idea of Salvation a complicated matter when indeed it’s really elementary in its basic tenets: We’re all sinners; we can’t save ourselves. The Creator is holy (without blemish, absolutely perfect) demands perfection from each of his creations. Of course, nobody qualifies because of our sins. His penalty for sin is death. Knowing our dilemma from eternity past, He makes a way out for us by sending His beloved and perfect Son, Jesus Christ, to die in our place. When one acknowledges the death of Jesus on the cross in our place (i.e., substitionary death), he/she is forgiven of all sins (remember Jesus paid the penalty) and receives eternal life to boot. Now can you think of a better ‘deal’ anywhere or in any era?

    GOD must punish sin because He’s holy. However, he’s made an escape for everyone. When you come through Christ as it were, GOD sees you as perfect in Christ. Why don’t you grab thos opportunity with both hands? GOD is a merciful and forgiving Creator who will accept you or anyone with open arms, once you approach Him in humility and with repentance in your heart. GOD constantly gets a bad name, but there’s absolutely nothing bad about Him.

    Why do you think I’m communicating with you? Is it because I’d like to see you roast in Hell? No way. Rather, I’d be happy if you eascaped eternal damnation. You’re making too much of the jokes.

    I can share with some things I KNOW the Lord did in my life. That’s for another time, however.

    I love you in Christ and pray that you will see the light before you ‘check out.’

    Good night & blessings to you and loved ones.

    • Anton A. Hill Says:

      Hi Randy,

      I’m not denying the folly of committing heinous crimes, then waiting till one’s deathbed to accept Jesus. I was simply asking a question on the theological implications. But let’s make it even simpler. Is it possible to commit massive human atrocities, then, upon the commitment of said atrocities, ask for forgiveness? Could I, say, murder ten men, rape their wives, and sell their children into slavery as long as, the very moment I’d finished doing so, I asked for Jesus’ forgiveness? Would I be forgiven and allowed entry into Heaven upon my death? Yes or no?

      You make the point of “not have time to repent.” I’ve been fascinated with this for a while and maybe you can clear it up for me. If God is not only eternal, but exists outside of time, why is the cut-off point for my salvation my own death? Why does that deadline matter to an eternal God? Why couldn’t I commit sins, die, then, upon witnessing the nature of God, repent and be forgiven? It seems odd that an omnipotent being would either be restricted by or restrict Himself with such an exact, and ultimately arbitrary, rule.

      How do you know that the Creator demands perfection of its creation? Why, in its omniscience, would it demand something of us that it knows we’re incapable of? That’s ultimately a very empty demand, especially something about which He knows everything.

      Why would substitutional atonement be the requirement? Why the specific time and place of such atonement given that the vast majority of the world’s population before and during that time had no way of learning of Jesus? Even a few cultures today have no means of acquaintance with it. Why is the sacrifice of one man, by means of a completely standard capital punishment of the time, considered sufficient to pay for all sin for all people who ever had lived and ever would live?

      Why doesn’t God, in His perfection, simply forgive all sinners of their sin without substitutional atonement?

      It’s funny you mention better deal because I just suggested one. Forgive for its sown sake. No condition. No substitution. Just plain, regular forgiveness.

      Why must God do anything? He’s God. Presumably He makes the rules, so why would He be bound by any? The reason I don’t grab this “opportunity” with both hands is I’ve not encountered any evidence that any of it is true. And when I press believers to demonstrate evidence of their claims, they either can’t or they refuse to.

      I don’t know why you’re communicating with me. Seems like a huge waste of your time. How do you know that Hell is real and that it is what you think it is?

      Please do share the things you know the Lord did in your life. Believers always tell me that they know God worked in their lives and yet they’re never able to tell me specifically how.

      Take care,

      Anton.

  3. GOD is a sovereign being who exists outside of time as we know it. As such, He’s not OBLIGATED to explain anything to mankind but in His fairness and mercy, He does. He does as He pleases and not one of us, even those shaky their tiny, puny fists, can do anything about it. But He NEVER DOES ANYTHING WRONG. Such is His perfection, holiness, righteousness. If a person should think that he’s master of his own fate/destiny, let them cheat death. It’s never happened, except for those three men mentioned in the Holy Bible.

    Here’s a list of some things GOD has done for me:
    (1) Used my parents to give me life. (2) Used His Son to save me (new attitude, new values, new outlook, new thinking, new beliefs etc. & eternal life)
    (3) Opened doors for me when no other person was able to help me.
    (4) Healed my body of a disease when medication couldn’t
    (5) Instilled love in my heart when nothing else could.
    (6) Gave me a peace and trnquility when I was bereaved.
    To be continued.

    • Anton A. Hill Says:

      Hey Randy,

      Sorry for the delay. I’m playing catch-up.

      “GOD is a sovereign being who exists outside of time as we know it.”

      How do you know?

      “As such, He’s not OBLIGATED to explain anything to mankind but in His fairness and mercy, He does.”

      I don’t think I said He was obligated. That doesn’t change the fact, however, that He created us with a sense of curiosity and thirst for knowledge. Given this, and His omniscience, He knew that we’d want to know why any of the assertions people like you make are true, especially without evidence.

      “He does as He pleases and not one of us, even those shaky their tiny, puny fists, can do anything about it.”

      Again, I don’t think I ever claimed otherwise.

      “But He NEVER DOES ANYTHING WRONG.”

      How do you define “wrong”?

      “Such is His perfection, holiness, righteousness.”

      While you’re at it, tell me what you mean by “righteousness.”

      “If a person should think that he’s master of his own fate/destiny, let them cheat death. It’s never happened, except for those three men mentioned in the Holy Bible.”

      This is a non-sequitur. The notion of being in control of one’s own life/fate/destiny doesn’t necessarily include supernatural abilities. Just because I don’t think I’m beholden to any god doesn’t mean that I also think I can manipulate the laws of physics. If I choose to jump off a bridge, I don’t think that just because I don’t want to die from the fall, I won’t.

      Other than Jesus, I’m not sure to whom you’re referring in the bible. But even with Jesus, you’d have to provide evidence that anything of his story is true.

      And if you’re gonna go by the Bible as a standard of those who’ve cheated death, I’ll refer you to the Egyptian Book of the Dead, the Qoran, and the story of Heracles as at least three narratives of people in history who’ve all cheated death.

      “Here’s a list of some things GOD has done for me:”

      All right! Here we go!

      “(1) Used my parents to give me life.”

      Prove that God had anything to do with your conception.

      “(2) Used His Son to save me (new attitude, new values, new outlook, new thinking, new beliefs etc. & eternal life)”

      Prove that your new attitude, values, outlook, thinking, and beliefs were caused by His son. Prove that His son ever existed and did what has been claimed of him.

      And prove eternal life. 🙂

      “(3) Opened doors for me when no other person was able to help me.”

      What do you mean?

      “(4) Healed my body of a disease when medication couldn’t”

      How do you know that God healed your body? How do you know that medication couldn’t? What was the specific chronology of events? Did you at any point during your disease seek professional medical help?

      “(5) Instilled love in my heart when nothing else could.”

      I don’t know what you mean by this. Do you mean that you had never loved anyone or anything? Or do you mean that you rarely had? How do you know that God instilled this love that you now have?

      “(6) Gave me a peace and trnquility when I was bereaved.”

      How did God give you peace and tranquility during your bereavement?

      Best,

      Anton.

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