My conversation with #RandyBridgeman on 6-15-12

My old pal Randy Bridgeman dropped by after forever. Not sure why either as neither of us has any in-roads with the other. Following is our latest exchange. My text is in italics. Randy’s is in bold.

It would be folly to commit all those crimes, then wait until you’re about to die to confess. Why? Because no one knows beyond a shadow of a doubt when he/she will leave this earth. In addition, one may go suddenly, therefore not have time to repent. Who in their right mind would take that chance? People make the idea of Salvation a complicated matter when indeed it’s really elementary in its basic tenets: We’re all sinners; we can’t save ourselves. The Creator is holy (without blemish, absolutely perfect) demands perfection from each of his creations. Of course, nobody qualifies because of our sins. His penalty for sin is death. Knowing our dilemma from eternity past, He makes a way out for us by sending His beloved and perfect Son, Jesus Christ, to die in our place. When one acknowledges the death of Jesus on the cross in our place (i.e., substitionary death), he/she is forgiven of all sins (remember Jesus paid the penalty) and receives eternal life to boot. Now can you think of a better ‘deal’ anywhere or in any era?

GOD must punish sin because He’s holy. However, he’s made an escape for everyone. When you come through Christ as it were, GOD sees you as perfect in Christ. Why don’t you grab thos opportunity with both hands? GOD is a merciful and forgiving Creator who will accept you or anyone with open arms, once you approach Him in humility and with repentance in your heart. GOD constantly gets a bad name, but there’s absolutely nothing bad about Him.

Why do you think I’m communicating with you? Is it because I’d like to see you roast in Hell? No way. Rather, I’d be happy if you eascaped eternal damnation. You’re making too much of the jokes.

I can share with some things I KNOW the Lord did in my life. That’s for another time, however.

I love you in Christ and pray that you will see the light before you ‘check out.’

Good night & blessings to you and loved ones.

Hi Randy,

I’m not denying the folly of committing heinous crimes, then waiting till one’s deathbed to accept Jesus. I was simply asking a question on the theological implications. But let’s make it even simpler. Is it possible to commit massive human atrocities, then, upon the commitment of said atrocities, ask for forgiveness? Could I, say, murder ten men, rape their wives, and sell their children into slavery as long as, the very moment I’d finished doing so, I asked for Jesus’ forgiveness? Would I be forgiven and allowed entry into Heaven upon my death? Yes or no?

You make the point of “not have time to repent.” I’ve been fascinated with this for a while and maybe you can clear it up for me. If God is not only eternal, but exists outside of time, why is the cut-off point for my salvation my own death? Why does that deadline matter to an eternal God? Why couldn’t I commit sins, die, then, upon witnessing the nature of God, repent and be forgiven? It seems odd that an omnipotent being would either be restricted by or restrict Himself with such an exact, and ultimately arbitrary, rule.

How do you know that the Creator demands perfection of its creation? Why, in its omniscience, would it demand something of us that it knows we’re incapable of? That’s ultimately a very empty demand, especially something about which He knows everything.

Why would substitutional atonement be the requirement? Why the specific time and place of such atonement given that the vast majority of the world’s population before and during that time had no way of learning of Jesus? Even a few cultures today have no means of acquaintance with it. Why is the sacrifice of one man, by means of a completely standard capital punishment of the time, considered sufficient to pay for all sin for all people who ever had lived and ever would live?

Why doesn’t God, in His perfection, simply forgive all sinners of their sin without substitutional atonement?

It’s funny you mention better deal because I just suggested one. Forgive for its sown sake. No condition. No substitution. Just plain, regular forgiveness.

Why must God do anything? He’s God. Presumably He makes the rules, so why would He be bound by any? The reason I don’t grab this “opportunity” with both hands is I’ve not encountered any evidence that any of it is true. And when I press believers to demonstrate evidence of their claims, they either can’t or they refuse to.

I don’t know why you’re communicating with me. Seems like a huge waste of your time. How do you know that Hell is real and that it is what you think it is?

Please do share the things you know the Lord did in your life. Believers always tell me that they know God worked in their lives and yet they’re never able to tell me specifically how.

Take care,

Anton.

13 Responses to “My conversation with #RandyBridgeman on 6-15-12”

  1. abhishek Says:

    HEY BRO ANTON,
    tell me something what do you think of after death??

    • Anton A. Hill Says:

      Hi Abhishek,

      Do you mean what do I think happens to us after we die? If that’s what you mean, then per all available evidence, I think our death is the end of our existence. Given that our thoughts, feels, fears, desires, and personalities are defined through the activity in our brains, and given that all brain activity ceases at death, thus, so do we.

      Best,

      Anton.

      • abhishek Says:

        sorry bro i do not want you to eternally die cuz i want to forever stay with brothers like you and talk and share ideas and play and pray together and again play games and kill aliens together with you… lol… In simple words i want you to eternally live, not die. because today am talking to you, seeing your face in a picture that small from such a distance. Tomorrrow i dnt know if you will still be there……..
        Well even though, its nice to know you bro, wud you add me on fb to chat more on other things like mgs4 for example lol

        And yeah i consider you to be a son of god…..

        • Anton A. Hill Says:

          Hi Abhishek,

          It’s all fine and good that you don’t want me, you, or anyone else to “eternally” die, but our desires regarding death are irrelevant to the fact of it. Feel free to find me on F’book if you like. What’s “mgs4”?

          Best,

          Anton.

  2. abhishek Says:

    Hi bro anton,
    You know that you are a fool right??

    The case that you presented concerning the mass murder, rape and slavery is quite good. Let me start by saying that even after doing so and asking for forgiveness on the spot isnt true repentance. Its a form of escapism which many people think of as repentance. True repentance takes time,in some cases 1 sec, some 1 month, some 1 year and some their whole life.

    True Repentance is When you KNOW that God is here at the moment looking at you, His presence is all over the place, then You know that what you have committed infront of his sight is PURE SIN.
    And it is at that moment that you ask HIM for forgiveness in the NAME Of His son JESUS and Through His blood you atone for your SINS. It shouldnt be just words like you see in most churches.. It should be full conviction in the depth of you heart through the HOLY SPIRIT that what you have done is PURE SIN infront of GOD. God then accepts you and forgives your SINS AND BY THE BLOOD SHED BY HIS SON HE ERASES YOUR SINS AND FORGETS IT. And it is at that moment you will have TRUE PEACE in your HEART.

    IT IS JUST THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST THAT YOU ATONE FOR YOUR SINS, NOT JUST ARTICULATING WORDS…

    IT is then that Forgiveness comes..

    GOD did this process because we all have corrupted blood in us..

    The question of why couldnt he just forgive us all like that is because we have got FREEWILL. And let me ask you something HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THAT GOD HAS FORGIVEN YOU THROUGH THE STEP THAT YOU HAD SAID??

    • Anton A. Hill Says:

      Hi Abhishak,

      I’ve been called a fool several times, so I guess I do know, yes. 🙂

      You contradict yourself when you claim that “asking for forgiveness on the spot isn’t true repentance,” then you later claim that “True repentance takes time, in some cases 1 sec.” First, how do you know this, and second how is my doctrinal hypothetical incorrect? If I do something bad, but sincerely repent, which, by your claim could take as little as a second, doesn’t that mean I could be a mass murderer as long as I then repent before death and I’ll still be forgiven and welcomed into Heaven? Every born-again Christian I’ve talked to has claimed that the only thing necessary for salvation is repentance and the asking for salvation from Jesus Christ. Every born-again Christian I’ve talked to has claimed that Christ will forgive any sin if repentance is sincere. If these two doctrines are true, then my hypothetical must also be true.

      If God is omnipresent, then of course I know He’s here. Why would my knowledge of His presence complement my repentance? You claim that repentance “shouldn’t be just words,” but if they’re sincere words, which God would know since He’s omniscient, then who are you to judge any claimed degree of sincerity in repentance? It sounds like we’re on the same page here when you say, “It should be full conviction… in front of God. God then accepts you and forties your sins…” We agree, then, that, according to the doctrine, all that is necessary to be forgiven of any sin is to sincerely repent. Thus, my hypothetical is correct. I could kill a bunch of people, but, as long as I sincerely repent before I die, I’ll still go to Heaven.

      Now, what you say next is confusing, “It is just through the blood of Christ that you atone for your sins, not just articulating words.” So is it through sincere repentance that I’m forgiven or through Christ’s blood? Obviously, I can’t go to the store and get me a bottle of Christ’s Blood and wash myself in it, so that whole thing must be symbolic, right? It sounds like what you’re saying is that I have to be really, really, really sincere when I repent, not just pretend. But what I’m saying is that in my hypothetical, yes, the mass murderer is sincere. So we’ve got that part. Thus, assuming that the sincerity of repentance is at its highest degree, is my hypothetical true? As long as a mass murderer really, really, really sincerely repents of his crimes, will he be forgiven, saved, and go to Heaven?

      Free will is bullshit in a universe created and run by an omniscient god. If that god knows everything we will do, think, or feel before we ever exist, it’s pre-determined and thus not a choice. But even if it were a choice, that’s irrelevant to God’s ability to forgive for its own sake.

      What step had I said that God had forgiven me? You mean for Him to simply forgive? If that’s what you meant, then I imagine an omnipotent god could find a way to let me know.

      Best,

      Anton.

  3. abhishek Says:

    hi bro anton(sorry for the asshole part, your name i didnt knew),

    The first part is a metaphor and truth which obviously you didnt understood?? I suggest that you read it all again… and if still you didnt understand i will explain it to you..

    Secondly freewill is there whether you accept it or not it is there. Let me explain, free will is something which god has given man as a gift. You can choose whatever you want to do. READ THE BIBLE WHEN EVE SINNED AND REBELLED. IT WAS SHE WHO HAD A FREEWILL AND SINNED AGAINST GOD.
    Let me clarify something to you, you have got 2 destiny; 1 what GOD wants and will make for you when you walk with Him and 2ly Satan’s one ..
    Its you who has to choose.

    And yes God knows everything, whatever you call it. Everything about You He knows. But He goes beyond that and love to see what you choose for yourself every minute of your life.

    There is no such thing as ‘go to heaven’
    The bible says that HEAVEN IS IN YOU AND THAT YOU ARE IN HEAVEN.. Look it up…

    My question for you anton bro is FOR EVERYTHING that JESUS has done for HUMANITY then and now will You LOVE Him or Hate Him??

    • Anton A. Hill Says:

      Hi Abhishek,

      It’s best if you assume I have no context for anything you say for, even though I do, even common terms have a certain amount of interpretation inherent in them. Thus, while it may seem like what you tell me is obvious, a lot of times, we’re not on the same semantic page.

      Let’s step back a little and agree on some definitions. How do you define “free will”? You don’t believe in a literal “Eve.” The notion is patently false, not for the least reason is that Eve means “living one” in Hebrew. Also, there’s some evidence that the character derived ultimately from other sources. Check out:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve

      Not only that, but there’s a mountain of evidence that all humankind did not descend from one couple. The genetic evidence alone is overwhelming.

      You don’t believe in a literal “Satan” either. That notion is just plain dumb. That “name” is simply “the adversary” in Hebrew and didn’t even appear as a character until the New Testament. Most believed about him is derived from myth and folklore. Several instances of “satan” aren’t even translated as “devil”, but rather “adversary” in Greek, Latin, and English.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan

      You say, “He goes beyond that and love to see what you choose for yourself…” “love to see” implies anticipation of a future event, but if God knows everything, He doesn’t experience anticipation because He already knows everything that will happen before it does.

      Fine, there’s no such thing as “god to Heaven.” I don’t care. I don’t believe in Heaven in any sense. But this still begs the question of how do you know what you claim of Heaven? I have interest in looking it up because whatever the Bible says of Heaven is irrelevant to the evidence of its existence.

      I don’t hate Jesus just like I don’t hate Santa Claus. I have no reason to believe He’s done anything for humanity. And even through the stories I’ve heard, it’s unimpressive. Being killed by means of a completely mundane Roman means of execution is nothing special. Add to that the fact that since Jesus is allegedly the son of God and part of God, He not only sacrificed Himself to Himself for broken rules that He made up, but He also knew it would happen. Big deal.

      Best,

      Anton.

      • abhishek Says:

        hey bro,
        hi sorry for late reply, olympics on you know..

        well i will add you on fb and then we can continue the conversation over there you know..

        and i cant believe you dnt know wat mgs4 is its a game called metal gear solid 4 look it up bro..

        The fact that you dnt hate JESUS means that you love him.

        on the other parts i will continue on fb ok bro..

        Hey i wanted to ask you this though, if natural selection and evolution made us and the diversity of life on planet earth for a long time, i can then blame it for all the misery that is happening in the world then?? for e.g poverty, cyclones, hiv aids, typhoons, earthquakes and so on??? What do you think about it?? isnt natural selection a dictator of us in some sense?? And now making us evolving slowly?? Why couldnt it makes us immortal like that death wouldnt reign on us??

        We are born from the womb of our mother, then grow up in this world called earth. Why did it had to be like that??

        I think that natural selection and evolution is the biggest bastard of all as it made us survived and now killing us all through lots of things. its the biggest bastard of all.

        • Anton A. Hill Says:

          Hi Abhishek,

          Ah, yes, THAT MGS4. Yeah, I’ve heard of it. Haven’t played it.

          Fine, then. By your definition of “love” and “hate”, I love Jesus.

          Though I’m not an evolutionary biologist, I wouldn’t go so far as to say evolution “made us.” It’s a little more complicated than that. for a more in-depth article on it, check this out:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

          You can’t blame evolution for all the misery in the world because some of that misery is caused by natural disasters (which are under God’s purview, by the way). Although I guess you could blame those on natural laws and processes (which are also under God’s purview, by the way). I’d say that poverty, too, has little to do with biological evolution and more to do with sociology. HIV/AIDS, yes, I’d say that has to do with evolution, though so do all other viral diseases. Of course natural selection is our dictator. We’ve adapted and probably continually adapt to our environments. I can’t speak to the rate of evolution as I’m not an evolutionary biologist. In my opinion, since natural selection ins’t a person and so has no thoughts or feelings, it’s not concerned with keeping us alive forever, but rather it’s possible that eternal life is evolutionarily disadvantageous. If no one err died, we’d be an exponentially increasing population that would perpetually have to take care of its elderly, who would in turn become perpetually older.

          If you’re going to blame evolution for the world’s ills, you have to also blame gravity, UV radiation, and other things that constantly kill us indiscriminately.

          Best,

          Anton.

  4. abhishek Says:

    then you agree with me that natural selection and evolution is the greatest bastard of all???? evolving us into loving beings and then kill our loved ones in front of our own eyes?? What a fucking great destiny?

    hey bro cant find you on fb??

    • Anton A. Hill Says:

      I don’t agree that adapting for survival is the greatest bastard of all. Beats extinction. I never claimed anything about killing our loved ones. I’m on F’book as “Anton Hill” or just click on the link to my “Atheist Asshole” page.

  5. abhishek Says:

    i wud say that if nature wouldnt made us ‘survive’ we wudnt exist, therefore no fucking poverty, famine, suffering, starving, hatred between brothers and sisters from different nations, no gigantic war, killing and also no nuclear bombs,no pollution – destruction of ozone layer…
    Nothingness
    No man…..

    we are just DUST and to this dust WE shall return…

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